Hollywood Gays (28 page)

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Q: When I first saw you, in the movie Bye Bye Birdie, you were definitely middle-aged. Now you have a far more youthful image.

A: My image has gotten younger, even though all these years have gone by.

Q: I was fascinated by that movie. It was the first one I ever saw—the whole family—at a drive-in. We’d just moved to California from Michigan.

A: I’m from Ohio, myself. People are nicer in the Midwest. In general (waggles head).

Q: You were in the play and film of Bye Bye Birdie. What did you think of the film?

A: Well, Dick (Van Dyke) was also in both versions. We loved that show. It really made us. And Chita Rivera, who was in the musical, was marvelous. But they signed Janet Leigh for the movie, and she worked like a trouper, so we had no bones to pick. But I
hated
the movie version! They should’ve called it
Hello Ann-Margret
. They went and built it around her and ruined the rest of it.

Q: You brought the house down—or the car down—with your song “Kids.”

A: And ya know, that wasn’t even in the show, originally. Well, not for me. Another character sang it. Then they gave it to me, because I was the one character older people could relate to. So I had to have one song, to put the kids in their place. But the teenagers loved it! They loved me—I always communicate with teenagers.

Q: At the time I saw it, I was in elementary school. The references to Elvis Presley completely escaped me.

A: Oh, that’s funny. Because Birdie
was
Elvis. The whole thing was about this Elvis Presley character, only we called him Conrad Birdie. And it was such a hot potato, at the time. Parents, when we were on Broadway, they were afraid to let their kids go see it. They thought it would be this wild, Elvis kind of thing. My character, Harry MacAfee, helped reassure them.

Q: One of the funniest things in the movie is when you and your wife and kids, as a heavenly choir, sing a hymn to Ed Sullivan.

A: Yes. Well, little Miss Ann-Margret didn’t quite steal
that
scene from the rest of us.

Q: You are thinner now than then....

A: Well, thank God! You name a diet, I’ve tried it. Oh, don’t even
talk
about it! Yes, I’m thinner, all right. But another reason I seem younger today is that I’m freer. Less conservative in my dress and my outlook. I’m
with it
, sonny! (Snickers.)

Q: Do you also work less often, now that you can pick and choose?

A: Yes! I used to work so hard it was ridiculous. Maybe I was trying to prove something to myself, I don’t know. I worked myself into a stupor, until I was ready to drop. Now I concentrate on
Hollywood Squares
, which I enjoy.

Q: You’re just as funny now, but you seem less nervous.

A: I also like myself more, which I think comes with age. When you’re young and tend to be twitchy, you see the negative and risky side of everything. As you grow, you become comfortable with yourself and learn from your mistakes. You also take more time to enjoy life and to focus in on quality in relationships and experiences.

Q: Do you have a special relationship in your life today?

A: Well, I’m always looking. And you never know who might be just around the corner!

Q: Such a beautiful home you have. Do you ever get lonely?

A: There’s a difference between being alone and being lonely. I guess it’s an old cliché, but when you’re young, you always want to be on the go, around someone all the time. I’m not saying I prefer to be alone, but now I can enjoy it. And if I were involved with someone, I’d want time and space to myself, which might sound selfish, but would be essential.

Q: Do you have hobbies? Or time for them?

A: Telling little jokes—that’s a kind of hobby. For instance: I have a very, very rich friend. He even has a roll of one-dollar bills....

Q: What’s unusual about having a roll of one-dollar bills?

A: In his
bathroom?

Q: Very good! Speaking of rooms, do you spend much time in the second-smallest room in the house?

A: My closet? (Titters.) No, strike that.
Please!
Oh, you mean the kitchen!
Yes
. I’m a lifelong dieter; but I feel very secure in a kitchen with a big refrigerator and very little in it. Cupboards are nice, when you’re seeing them from the outside.

Q: As for relationships, do you think being a busy performer discourages long relationships?

A: Oh, absolutely. I worked 24 hours a day to make sure that the loves of my life
didn’t
work. Maybe I should keep my big ol’ mouth shut, but hate is very close to love, and many people do live in hate, in so-called loving relationships—legal, respectable, and everything—but they can’t stand the sight of each other. I couldn’t live that way.

Q: Your dog is named Harry MacAfee, isn’t he?

A: Yes. He’s adorable. He’s a Dandie Dinmont. If he ever has a little girl-dog, a bitch, I can always call her
Kim
. Or Ann-Margret! (Ann-Margret played Harry’s daughter Kim.)

Q: I’m supposed to ask your feelings about divorce. (Both laugh.)

A: This must be a magazine run by ladies, right? Divorce? Isn’t that a rather tacky song by Tammy Wynette? “D-I-V-O-R-C-E”? Let’s see. What can I say about that? Well, love can exist outside of marriage. And I just look at marriage as not being that important today. If that’s too revolutionary for the
Talk
ladies, feel free to censor it out.

Q: Don’t worry.

A: So enough about divorce and marriage. Let me say more about that not liking yourself. I guess that’s the theme of this—unless you want a picture of me and Harry (waggles). Anyway, that’s very important. Some people in Hollywood are terrific, but they just don’t seem to
like
themselves. That’s sad, yet at some point it seems to happen to all of us. And I think it’s stronger when you’re young. That’s why so many young people choose suicide, just ending it all, which is heartbreaking. And I could list you the names of some very sexy and attractive young performers who have just everything in the world, yet they’re awfully self-destructive. They’re trying to put a stop to themselves, because they don’t like themselves.

Q: Do you mean via drugs?

A: Not just that. Bad relationships, or going for the big buck—taking the money and running. Which ruins a career—it means you do shoddy work, shoddy, shitty projects. I mean you have to look at the long run. But if you don’t like yourself, you don’t even want to see a long run.

Q: Why should these young people hate themselves?

A: Most of them feel replaceable. They know there’s plenty more where they came from. It’s this whole population explosion, only if you mention
that
, then it seems like you’re totally pro-birth control, and the religious groups say that’s anti-family. I hardly dare open my mouth for the public on any serious subject—it’s so easy to become an
issue!
Most stars are frightened to death to say anything.

Q: Do you have a motto or something that you live by?

A: Not really. But I do have a favorite saying: “And this, too, shall pass.” It’s comforting. Don’t get me wrong, I was never extreme or anything, but I was often dissatisfied with myself. From time to time I just didn’t like me. Well, I must be doing something right, because now I
love
me, faults and all! And that’s the most wonderful, healthy feeling in the world.

Q: In your career, is there anything you’ve never done that you’d love to do?

A: Yes! To be an opera singer. Imagine the kind of release that must be, getting up in front of the whole world and
screaming
your little heart out for two hours! I’d love to do it, and I am going to. Maybe on TV someday. I always say, if you want something bad enough, you’ll get it.

Q: But didn’t someone once say beware what you wish for, for your dream might come true?

A: Oh, he was probably just some tired old wet blanket!

Q: Anything else you’d like to tell the women at
Talk
?

A: I wouldn’t
dare!
I’d like to ask
Talk
something, in all honesty. How come, with such a big readership, I’ve never heard of it? I mean, I’ve heard of
McCall’s
and those other ladies’ magazines.

Q:
Talk
is in every beauty parlor in America. Only. It used to be called
Girl Talk
, but they had to license that title from a TV network, since it was also the name of a talk show hosted by Virginia Graham.

A: So now it’s just
Talk
. No
Girl
, huh? Do they figure
boys
are gonna read it in them there beauty parlors? Say, does the editor listen to this tape, or do you just send the finished article?

Q: Usually they request the tape, for a listen-through, if the subject is “controversial.”

A: Oh,
well
, then. I’m anything but
that
. At least on tape....

Q: You worked with Eartha Kitt. Was she fun or fury?

A: Eartha Kitt the cat, fun? Lemme tell you, sonny, she gave ego a bad name....

Q: Are female stars harder to work with than male ones?

A: All stars have hard-ons about themselves.... Now, then.

Q: Alice Ghostley is so funny; she has many of your mannerisms. I’ve always thought of her as a female Paul Lynde. I remember her best from
Bewitched
and Julie Andrews’s variety series.

A: Oh, Alice is a pearl. A real gem. And the stories she could tell you about Miss Julie Andrews! (Covers mouth with hand.)

Q: Julie isn’t Mary Poppins, is she?

A: Well, you know what (Hollywood columnist) Joyce Haber says about her—she makes General Patton look like Pollyanna.

Q: You know what was
so
funny? Your drag scene in
The Glass Bottom Boat
, one of my favorite comedies. You looked so uncomfortable and antsy in that gown and red wig!

A: Not
that
uncomfortable, dear. (Winks.) Actually, my dress was more expensive than any of the ones Doris (Day) had to wear. That day that I came in fully dressed and coiffed, I was the belle of the set! Everybody went wild! Doris came over and looked me up and down and told me, “Oh, I’d never wear anything
that
feminine.”

Q: You were also hilarious as the funeral director in
Send Me No Flowers
with Doris Day and Rock Hudson.

A: Wasn’t that fabulous?! Those were some of my best lines in any movie.

Q: Was Rock Hudson any fun to work with?

A: Not on the set. The guy was—maybe I shouldn’t say this—he was mentally constipated. Real tight-ass. I suppose anyone in his shoes would have to be, but he didn’t seem a very happy man.

Q: You mean because he had to repress his own sexuality all the time?

A: Well,
yes
. What a pain in the ass! It’s a tremendous price to pay, but apparently it suits Rock.

Q: Wasn’t Tony Randall in all three of those Rock Hudson/Doris Day movies? He was funny, too, but in a much more low-key way. I think it took television to bring him really out.

A: Oh, honey, it would take a miracle to bring that man really
out
....His thing is to act one way, like everybody’s nellie uncle, then mention his wife in every other sentence. He was closer to Rock than I was. (Tony Randall never came out of the closet.)

Q: Let’s see: you were also in a movie with Debbie Reynolds...?   

A: Yes (sourly).
How Sweet It Is
. Her and James Garner. They were nice enough; the movie stank. We did make it on an ocean liner; on the way to Acapulco. Jerry Paris, the director, wrote it on-board each day. We all had fun, but no wonder it stank. At night, we’d sit around and dish. Jerry told me those rumors that everybody’s heard about Debbie and her
close friend
Agnes Moorehead. Well, the whole world knows Agnes was a lesbian—I mean classy as hell, but one of the all-time Hollywood dykes. I’d heard those rumors, but Jerry filled in some details that.... Oh, I’d better not; I’m not even sure if the story’s really true. (Eddie Fisher, Debbie’s first husband, had announced his intention to include the story in his memoirs, until Reynolds threatened a lawsuit.)

Q: You know, I vaguely remember
The Paul Lynde Show
, mostly because it was set in my hometown, Santa Barbara.

A: Yes (waggles). It was kind of based on
All in the Family
, only we had someone who looked like a human being for my son-in-law. I was no Archie Bunker, though—the guy didn’t have a mean bone; just cranky. The actor who played my son-in-law was real nice too. I had a wife, two daughters, the whole bit. Oh, well, that’s TV for you!