Jacqueline Kennedy: Historic Conversations on Life With John F. Kennedy (40 page)

JOHN AND CAROLINE VISIT THEIR FATHER AT WORK
Robert Knudsen, White House/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

Were there any books that he liked reading or the children demanded that he read?

No, he didn't read—he didn't like to read books to them much. He'd rather tell them stories. But he'd make up these fantastic ones. Sort of that they were just riveted by. Oh, and then he'd have ponies for Caroline—White Star and Black Star. Caroline said to me, "Daddy would always let me choose which pony I wanted to ride and which pony my friend would ride." And then he would make some race and he would always let Caroline win the race. And then he had a—oh, Miss Shaw was in a lot of them, rather ludicrously—and Mrs. Throttlebottom was in the race. And how Caroline went hunting—the Orange County hounds and then White Star and Black Star—she went in the Grand National and beat every—you know, little things that had to do with their world, where they did absolutely extraordinarily. John got his PT boat and shot a Jap destroyer, or something like that. But, he never got impatient. They'd come in his bed, you know.

What—when you went to Hyannis Port or Newport or Palm Beach, where he'd have more time with the children. Of course, he couldn't lift them or play with them himself, could he, with the back?

THE FIRST FAMILY, HYANNIS PORT, 1963
Cecil Stoughton, White House/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

He'd get on the floor, then he could really roll around with them. And he used to—he could lift Caroline up and—at least, a little—he used to throw her around an awful lot before we got to the White House.
⁶²
But, well, they'd be in our room in the morning, and then he'd swim with them for about an hour, and then he always wanted them to come out on the boat with us. A lot of times, you know, they really were quite young. They'd get awfully cranky if they missed their nap. But he always wanted them to come, so you'd put them to bed inside for half an hour or something, and maybe they would get whiny, but he always wanted them there. Or, at Camp David and things, you'd sort of sit out and have supper with them or you'd run on the lawn, and everything.

What place relaxed him most, do you think, of the various places you went?

It was really the boat that relaxed him the most. Before he was President, it was to go out on his father's boat, the
Marlin
—and then the
Honey Fitz
. And the reason for that was, there was no telephone. He was awful about the phone. It could—never—ring but he wouldn't answer it. You know, calls would come, or else he'd be getting ten people on the phone. So, there, I mean, rain or shine—I can remember him taking Adlai Stevenson out on the
Honey Fitz
one day in late October in Newport—hurricane season. I got two polo coats for Adlai and a pith helmet of my stepfather's. And Jack was sitting in the back in a black sweater, the hair—the wind blowing his hair, blissfully happy with fish chowder. And I was inside, with two blankets on, and drinking hot soup. That's how cold it was. He just thought everyone would love that boat because that was his away from care. It was for him what getting out on a horse was for me—in the air, no phone. I'm not that mad for riding horses or hunting. But the release from tension in the air. He loved the sun and the water and no phone. And you know, friends there—you always had friends there that—he never used the boat for working—but whoever you want to relax with.

THE
HONEY FITZ
Cecil Stoughton, White House/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

PRESIDENT AND MRS. KENNEDY SAIL WITH HER MOTHER AND STEPFATHER OFF NEWPORT, 1962
Robert Knudsen, White House/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

THE PRESIDENT AND CAROLINE ON THE
HONEY FITZ
Bob Sandberg,
Look
magazine/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

What did he think of all these skits about himself, like
The First Family,
and so on? Did he ever listen to them?

I think he listened. I'm not sure he listened to all of that record.
⁶³
I listened to one side, and then I threw it away because I didn't want my children to see it. And I guess, he sort of took it. You know, I thought it was so unfair that he didn't—I guess he just accepted it. I mean, he obviously didn't like it, but I was the one who got much more worked up about those things. I thought it was so mean. I didn't care if they made fun of me or anything, but when they made fun of little children— And the first year he was President, I went to the Women's Press Club dinner. He had a fever that night, and so Lyndon took me. It's a tradition for the President and his wife to go—and a woman named Bonnie Angelo came out on a tricycle as Caroline and sang some awful song.
⁶⁴
And the next year, I wouldn't go and that Bonnie Angelo was president. Pierre really got upset by that. And I said, "I'm not going to go, and you can either tell them why, Pierre—for what they did last year—or you can make up any excuse you think is best." And then I explained that to Jack. I just felt so strongly about those children. It was hard enough protecting them in the Kennedy family, where some of the cousins, especially, Eunice's children, are—were so conscious of the position, and would always wear Kennedy buttons and would play that record, "My Daddy Is President, What Does Your Daddy Do?,"
⁶⁵
or
The First Family
. And I hid all those things from my children and always taught them that the White House was sort of temporary. I'm so glad I did, for the way it ended. But that it was while Daddy was President, and presidents had lived in it before. I'd tell them when Franklin Roosevelt would come to dinner—and Mrs. Longworth or President Truman. I'd tell them little stories about other presidents, and then there would be a president after Daddy, and then we would be living in Hyannis. And, you know, so they never got to think that all this was going to be forever in this power, which the others were awful about. So I'd get upset about those skits, but he didn't like to see me get upset. But, I guess, he knew it was part of being President. And because it was such a different and young family, there was so much more to make skits about with us, which he said, sort of wryly, to me once.

Did the President often talk much about the things he would like to do? You mentioned a new secretary of state.

I know he was going to get rid of J. Edgar Hoover, the minute—and he always said that those were the two things he did first—you know, Hoover and Allen Dulles, which I guess he had to do at the time. He couldn't have not.

Did he have any—ever talk about who—what he would do with the FBI?

No, he didn't say who he'd make, and then Bobby was going to leave the Justice Department. I think he might have made Nick Katzenbach
⁶⁶
the head, I'm not sure. And, well, I know there was going to be a domestic peace corps, but I guess that was sort of started, wasn't it? And I know he was going to do this poverty thing.
⁶⁷
And I know he really cared about—Kentucky was the place he spoke to me about and we were going to go to Kentucky sometime, and I mean I know it was mentioned.
⁶⁸

Yeah, Appalachia.

That's it, Appalachia. And he was going to Russia.

Yes. That's—I wanted to ask you about that.

Sometime in the second term we were going to go to Russia and that would have just been so incredible. And we were going to go to the Far East. I guess, I always thought he was going to go in December, but then as he wasn't talking about it, I guess, with Indonesia and everything, it was sort of—

Yeah, but I think it was—I think he was planning to go in April—in the spring, to the Far East.

And it would have been so incredible for him to go to Japan, when you think Eisenhower couldn't go there,
⁶⁹
and the crowds and everything you would have gotten. If all this had to happen, I just wish he could have seen some more good things come in, that he worked so hard for. The tax bill, the civil rights bill, the economy up so high. You know, think of all those businessmen who still say awful things about him, and suddenly the gold flow is absolutely stopped, the gross national product has never been so high. To go to Japan and to go to Russia. If he could have just seen all those and—and won. If he could have just won, and he was so praying it would be Goldwater that he'd have to run against. He used to say, "Let Barry alone. He's doing just fine." You know if he could have just seen some of the good things.

He would have liked to run against Goldwater.
⁷⁰
Did he think Goldwater was going to get it, or was that—

Oh, it was just too much to hope for. I mean, it was just too good to be true. I don't think he did. In the beginning, quite a while ago, he thought Romney would, and he was nervous about Romney because he said he'd be sort of hard.
⁷¹
But then I think later on, he didn't think Romney would so much. I don't know who he thought would.

Did he ever talk about Rockefeller?

Yeah. He said Rockefeller, in a way, was sort of a coward, because he should have done what Jack did and run in those primaries.
⁷²
But either he was—had cold feet or was nervous about not going into New Hampshire and all that. And he said if he had, he would have been president.