Taming the Beast: Charles Manson's Life Behind Bars (49 page)

I play a little music when I’m allowed to. I draw real good, but they took my pencils.

Everything I do, if I can do it real good, they’ll take it away from me. I used to do—make little dolls of strings, then he come took the string. So I’m not allowed to do anything. I don’t have any clothes. I haven’t combed my hair in two, three years, you know, I can’t comb my hair. I can’t do that.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Have you been involved in any psychiatric intervention?

INMATE MANSON: Yes, yes. I’ve seen more doctors than doctors have seen inmates. I was with Dr. Nich there in the back alley over there in Vacaville with [inaudible].

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Was this in a therapy setting?

INMATE MANSON: Well, I guess you could call it the therapy setting. I was handling all the crazy people and taking care of the kids in the visiting room and [inaudible] in the garden and chapel.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Was anybody doing anything with you?

INMATE MANSON: No, everybody was doing what I told them.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: No, no. Were any of the therapists doing anything to assist you in your life?

INMATE MANSON: No. It was me doing it for them. I had to look out for the veterans just came back from the war and all the wheelchairs and all the doctors. They had a lot of Vietnamese doctors come in, couldn’t speak English, so I had to get the medication all straightened around for that, you know, because my life at the bottom, I got to look out for everybody else’s life too or I can’t get on through what I’m trying to do.

I like to play music, but they took my music away and they took my guitar away. That’s the only thing I do. I play a little music. But they’re scared of that. Anything I do, they get afraid of and then they’ll run and tell the cops that they’re afraid of whatever I’m doing and they run, take it away from me and I’m not allowed to do anything. So I just sit in a cell, you know. I don’t really need to do anything because I’m doing everything all the way anyway. And my radio—

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Now you keep talking about not being able to read and write.

INMATE MANSON: Not that well. I read and write [inaudible].

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: You have an I.Q. that’s up well over a 100 points.

INMATE MANSON: Yes, I am pretty smart.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: And you’ve been in prison all these years. Have you done anything at all to improve your grades?

INMATE MANSON: Grades for what? What am I doing?

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Well, you keep harping on the fact that you cannot read very well, nor can you write very well.

INMATE MANSON: No, I just—I’m not harping. I’m just explaining that that’s—

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: You keep saying it.

INMATE MANSON:—that’s where I’m at.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Have you done anything to improve your reading and writing skills?

INMATE MANSON: Yes, I read a book. I read a book. It was kind of boring, man. You know, I can think better things than I can read. I mean, reading is kind of like slowing down and people only love each other in books. You can’t love each other in reality, because you’re all trapped in books, locked up in wars. You’re all locked up in the Second World War, man. You’re still fighting wars over there, you know.

I was trying to unlock that war. That’s what was over there trying to unlock the wars. Bob Arondis [phonetic spelling] came from India and the Dr. Hyler [phonetic spelling] used to come over and tell me what Bob Arondis had to say about, you know, the lovey love center there in Berkeley where they’ve had to hire minds of the religious perspective there.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: And so you haven’t done any of those kinds of things?

INMATE MANSON: Well, what I’m trying to explain to you without a lot of—I don’t want to appear like I’m somebody, but I’m on top of everything. I’m the smartest guy in the world, you know. I can’t—I don’t think there’s anyone in the world—there’s no subject I can’t tell you everything you want to know about it, you know. I’ve even fixed a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. I’m short change, I know how to deal off the bottom. I’ve learned everything that you taught me, Dad.

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Okay—

INMATE MANSON: Yes, yes, yes, uh-huh, well [inaudible]—

DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Return to the Chair.

PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Thank you. Okay. Mr. Manson, we’re going to the third area of the hearing now, parole plans. Mr. Aceto [background noise/inaudible].

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Thank you. We have to talk about your parole plans. Do you know the statement that you made to your counselors?

INMATE MANSON: No.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You stated that you had no plans for the future. You also stated that you were not interested in paroling and that you would be lost in our society. His main concern at this time is to be released to a general population setting in order to program.

INMATE MANSON: Makes sense to me.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: That’s a good statement, if it’s yours. It doesn’t sound like you.

INMATE MANSON: Well—

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Was that your statement?

INMATE MANSON: Yes, basically I said that to that broad, yes, but I might’ve said something else to somebody else in a different perspective. I generally say to people what they want to hear.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Hold it. What broad are you talking about?

INMATE MANSON: Some caseworker woman. Name was Virginia. I think her name was Virginia.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Correctional counselor?

INMATE MANSON: Yes, who was it?

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: I’m not going to tell you. It’s your counselor, you should know.

INMATE MANSON: Well, yes, I have—there’s all kinds of counselors, man—

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Talk too loud [inaudible].

INMATE MANSON: There’s all kinds of counselors, they turn over all the time. They come and go like—I can’t keep track of those.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Montero [phonetic spelling].

INMATE MANSON: [Inaudible.]

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Montero.

INMATE MANSON: Montero, I think that’s a broad.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: It’s not a broad. It’s a woman.

INMATE MANSON: I should say woman, okay.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Okay. That’s good enough.

INMATE MANSON: Let me explain something.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: I didn’t ask you nothing yet. I just want to get the statement out of the way. Is that your statement?

INMATE MANSON: Partly.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Partly.

INMATE MANSON: To that person on that level. I’ve got other legs. Cockroach got eight legs [inaudible] got six.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You said that you would be lost in society today.

INMATE MANSON: My position is taken.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You’re safe in here without society.

INMATE MANSON: No. It’s got nothing to do with safety. I’m not in that [inaudible]. The position that I should be holding is taken by someone else.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: All right. Let me tell you what you’ve got here. You may have seen them yourself. You had 45, what your counselor calls, fearful letters. Fearful letters opposing your parole. That right?

INMATE MANSON: I’ve got a bunch of them, but I think they’re all from one person, aren’t they?

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Well, it would appear that they’re written by different people at a certain time, except for a few. And it’s all based on some rumor you let out of this joint that you were going to be paroled and that you would be accepting a hideout place and money in the bank and that’s what you put out as a rumor. Did you do that?

INMATE MANSON: Can’t say for real.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Can’t say for real?

INMATE MANSON: No. There’s a lot of rumors that go in and out of different things I’ve been doing. That’s what’s hard about this whole thing. They put so much pressure on you that everything I say or do goes—gets twisted around to what people want it to be, what they wanted to have said. It hasn’t really got anything to do with what it really is. It’s what other people need it to be.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: This appeared in an article in the paper, I know that. Here it is. Charlie Manson should never return to society. It was written because the news media said that Charlie Manson masterminded through his claim the outrageous murder of Sharon Tate, da-da-da-da-da, according to them [background noise/inaudible] admitted [inaudible] put fear into the system. Now the system may be putting fear into us. That the witness protection program [inaudible] program to release Charlie Manson.

INMATE MANSON: Yes, they offered me a place in Valachi [phonetic spelling].

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Who was they?

INMATE MANSON: F.B.I.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: What do you got to do with the F.B.I.? You don’t have nothing to do with the F.B.I.

INMATE MANSON: Yes, I do. I was a barber in the federal penitentiary for 20 years.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Were you a snitch?

INMATE MANSON: Nope. That’s the reason I didn’t take the program.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Well, anyway—

INMATE MANSON: If I had been a snitch, I’d been gone for Virginia.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: There was a [inaudible] there in 1990 that almost got out of hand for you.

INMATE MANSON: Well, they come to me two or three times and they wanted me to work and do different—draw profiles for new criminal types. And that Mexican—New Mexico thing jumped off the—they asked for some help. I’m not really a—I’m not a—an informant-type guy.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Okay. Now, you’re talking what’s [inaudible] when you get home, mom and dad? You got a mom and dad? [Inaudible] sir?

INMATE MANSON: I’d like to explain. I really would.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You don’t have to. I mean, it’s—

INMATE MANSON: But I mean, I really want to. I really want to.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: The question is, do you have folks to rely on?

INMATE MANSON: But you don’t understand. Each one of you is somebody. I ain’t nobody. I’m nothing. I’m now [inaudible] now [inaudible]. My mother went to prison. She left me. And everybody’s lied to me. A few old men in the Second World War were honest with me, you know. The older dudes were, you know—I was used to working the hospital [inaudible] you know.

I’ve always run with the—I’ve always run a main line with the guys that were truthful and honest. And like, the reason I haven’t been—you haven’t been able to kill me is you haven’t been able to find me, because every time you send somebody after me they can’t find me because I’m not really there in your minds.

Just like you draw a line across the desert and I’m sitting there and you come and draw a line, you say, “You can’t get out of there.” I say, “I’m aware.” You say, “You’re locked up.” I say, “Locked up in what?” He say, “Well, you’re locked up and we’re free.” And I say, “Oh yeah?” And then you walk back and forth and you play important with my life as if you’ve got something that I want, you know.

Like you got out and I’m supposed to be in, but yet I’m everywhere and I’m out and in and I’m all around, down to San Diego Zoo, and I’m riding a motorcycle and I’m your children and I’m the trees and I’m your—

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Okay. Hold it. Hold it up. Hold it up.

INMATE MANSON: I’m crazy and you got to get another doctor. Yes, sir.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: I get the point.

INMATE MANSON: In other words, like you won’t find them on here, man. Not [inaudible]—

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You do have some letters on your behalf. Okay? Let me find it here. Support letters. Sharon Quimbley—Sharon Quimbley, Cindy White. Do you know a Cindy White?

INMATE MANSON: No. I know Squeaky. She’s doing time. She wrote a letter to the president.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Margaret Ramone—Ransom? You don’t know that person?

INMATE MANSON: No, I don’t know them.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: These are your supporters I’m talking about.

INMATE MANSON: Well, I didn’t know I had any supporters. I didn’t really need any supporters actually. I thought I was my supporter.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: George Stimson from Cincinnati, Ohio.

INMATE MANSON: Simpson. Yes. George—St. George. Yes, he’s a good man. He’s an orthodox religious kind of guy. He’s got a very good—very good mind.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: A relative of yours?

INMATE MANSON: Huh?

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Is he a relative?

INMATE MANSON: No, no. Spiritually we’re allies. I’m allied spiritually with a lot of things.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Okay. He wrote a two-page letter for you. Cindy White, again, she has—

INMATE MANSON: I never really applied for this, or asked my friends for any support.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Well, I know that, but you do have some people out there that are interested in you.

INMATE MANSON: But you realize where most of those letters come from, don’t you?

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Don’t have an idea.

INMATE MANSON: Ulterior motive. I think the doctor sent you one of them, but he sent it to you and he didn’t sign his name. He sent it from Sacramento. They hoodwink their own paperwork, and then when it comes back, then he can keep me here and then he can build a medical association with me.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: You talking about Dr. White?

INMATE MANSON: Yes. He—yes, Dr. White and Christopherson.

BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Did you want to show us something here? The pictures?

INMATE MANSON: Oh, no. I had some pictures here. No, no. These are just—I’m working on a zoo project for the ecology. I’ve got frogs and I’ve got hawks and turtles, lizards, and I’m working on the backside of this game, trying to get CO camps. We was trying to start C.C. camps when I was in Folsom with Governor Brown. That’s when Squeaky and Red and Blue and Gold was out. That’s when we were running colors out.