The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa: Volume 6 (76 page)

In that journey of
E
and
VAM
together, any element of native germs does not survive anymore. It is not necessarily that the atmosphere is too pure and clean, but the atmosphere is unyielding. The atmosphere developed in such a way that the situation doesn’t accept any form of anything whatever: there is no room to be feared, no room for claustrophobia, no room for cowardice or localized pride. Any conventional approach is not applicable. You wouldn’t take the journey at all, if you were in that particular condition, of course.

That notion of indestructibility also contains an immense sense of joy—bliss, if you would like to call it that. But in this case, we are not talking about a happy, yippee, kind of joy. That is localized joy, conventional joy, joy from the point of view of one planet’s concept. In this case, we are talking about joy or bliss being beyond any context; therefore, it is completely total. For instance, if your car is partially damaged in an accident, you will still think in terms of getting it repaired. But if your car is totally wrecked, absolutely wrecked, you just give up, which is some sense of relief. It also contains a kind of joy, so it’s not a terrible disaster, particularly; a sense of relief comes along with it. I hope you know what I mean. [
Laughter
] There’s a sense of relief, a sense of freedom, free from a certain burden. Whereas if your car has a dent here and there, you have to take it to the body shop, you have to pay money and all the rest of it. That’s more of a burden. But the whole thing is completely gone, completely wiped out, so it is a different experience. Totality of some kind is taking place there. That kind of joy, bliss. Such joy doesn’t have to be maintained. You simply go to the insurance company and claim the money. It is as simple as that—if you have a good policy, of course. [
Laughs.
] That kind of relief is not particularly relief as such, but a sense of totality, of course.

The notion of totality is based on the idea of nonclinging. If there is a sense of space around you already, then the notion of totality is obviously there; whereas if there is no sense of space, lostness in space, there is not. If you are without an umbilical cord attached to your mother earth anymore, then a real sense of space begins to take place. We are talking in this case about journeying out into space, without telecommunication to relate back to mother earth, so to speak. You have freedom to do what you want, what you like—but you also have freedom to land, to come back to your world and work with your fellow people.

At a certain point, pain and pleasure become one. An immense dynamic situation takes place at that very point. That is what is known as the
VAM
principle, mahasukha, great bliss. This concept of great bliss does not mean that you are completely exasperated in tremendous fantastic joy—like a grain of popcorn in a little container that gets cracked dead, with its own grinning smile coming all over its body. You might think that is somewhat funny, but I’m afraid people think that way. People think that great joy means that you become completely dead and rigid and frigid with a gigantic smile—and you can do it eternally! [
Laughter
] That is a popular notion of spiritual bliss, actually, from the materialist’s point of view, of course.

This
VAM
also contains the sense of essence, and possibilities of giving birth. It contains semen, egg, sperm, seed, what have you, yeast, whatever metaphors might be visible or appropriate. It is a tremendously dynamic situation where you are not afraid or hesitant to sow further seeds anymore. And once you begin to sow seeds, your seed becomes a dynamic one. It begins to present itself naturally, very simply. So you give further birth to space and the contents of space, simultaneously. You are giving birth to further solar systems, further planets of all kinds. You are not afraid of that at all.

In relating with this situation, if there is any localized notion, pressure does not come from inside, particularly, but from outside. You begin to create a big blast, “keeoh!” [
soft explosive sound
]. If you are not willing to accept the space, and instead hold on to your territory, then space will organize the ultimate blast to break those shells. Some people call that vajra hell, in the tantric tradition; others call it damnation, what have you. Nevertheless, holding on to something is being made into a mockery. You cannot hang on to anything, particularly. When you begin to do that, you are made into a fool, an absolute fool. So suicide is achieved by trying not to commit suicide. The sense of being suicidal is achieved by trying not to commit suicide but to preserve territory. That’s the interesting point. It is a motto. Natural suicide takes place when you are not trying to do so. Very sad—very, very sad. Too bad.

I shouldn’t say too much. I want you to think about what we have discussed. Maybe, at this point, we could have a discussion, if you would like to contribute with questions.

Student:
Is this experience the vajra-like samadhi, or is it more like a nyam, a temporary experience?

Vidyadhara:
We are not talking about an experience, we are simply talking about what it is, at this point. We are not particularly talking about path. We are talking about what it actually is. We haven’t discussed the path concept yet. . . . Anybody else? Oops!

S:
Is the vast space equivalent to nonduality?

V:
Basically it is, but somehow I did not like the way you asked the question. [
Laughter
] Where are you? It sounds as if you are trying to put things into pigeonholes, if I may say so. We are not trying to create a dictionary here—though we would like to do so eventually. We are not trying to put things into neat compartments. Thank you, anyway. That’s a very useful contribution. . . . Over there?

S:
When you mentioned that unconditional space gives birth to unconditional question, are you talking about question in the sense of total, unconditional confusion, or the issue of what? That question?

V:
It is the nature of the question, rather than the issue. Issue is just, “poof!” It’s very simple. You might have a very serious issue, “When do I see you again?” But the nature of the question is different than the issue, actually, if you can separate the two things. That is an interesting point. What we are talking about is the nature of the question from the point of view of how you actually ask your question, rather than what you say. You may say, “Is there another cup of tea left for me?” or “Is somebody next door?” or “Is there going to be another sunrise tomorrow?”—anything. Here, the point is the manner and style in which you do it. What? Say what?

S:
I was wondering about a way of perceiving ourselves on the path. If we are involved, say, in Buddhism, there’s a possibility of space there that can accommodate both our failures and mistakes. I was contrasting that with the sense of paranoia, that we have to pay attention to detail, that you spoke about yesterday in the sense of the louse crossing the thread. I was wondering if that sense of space, of our perception of ourselves on the path, is what you are talking about in
EVAM
—or is that some sense of indulgence?

V:
Anything you want to believe. [
Laughter
]

S:
[
Laughs
.] Thank you.

V:
At this point, everything’s open. I want you to float, so to speak—and become real by floating, rather than become love-and-lighties, particularly, of course not. However, the choice is yours, sir. That’s it. Anything you want to believe. Anything you want to do? It’s yours! It’s your seminar. I’m just a mere push button here. [
Laughter
] You get the picture. That’s it! [
Laughter
]

S:
[
Laughs
.] I got it.

V:
Oops. Been getting the wrong people at the wrong time. [
Laughter
] Doctor over there, physician—of some kind. [
Laughter
]

S:
Rinpoche, I was wondering if you would say a few more words about the
VAM
concept, in relation to its indestructibility and unyielding quality, and then the softness or openness that it also seems to have—

V:
—at the same time.

S:
At the same time.

V:
At the same time. Sweet and sour at the same time. It is like the question of space. You cannot destroy space, but at the same time, space is very accommodating, nevertheless. Space also kills you, it is very uncompassionate—but at the same time, it is very accommodating, nevertheless. The essence of space is the
VAM
principle, which is put together with the vastness of space, the
E
principle. So the
VAM
principle is nothing other than space. V
AM
is the particular attributes that exist within the
E
principle. V
AM
becomes the manifestation of the characteristics of space.

S:
When you were talking about the
VAM
principle then, you were talking about both the
E
and the
VAM
together, the softness and the unyielding.

V:
E’s expression. E’s manifestation is
VAM.
E is just the vastness of it, basically. That’s it. Full stop. But beyond that, qualities exist. We could talk about the light and brilliance of the sun, or about the destructive qualities of the sun. The sun also produces creative principles. You know, that’s kind of saying the same thing. Nevertheless, that’s an interesting twist in our state of mind. Usually we want to relate one situation with one thing, another situation with another thing, because we would like to split things, usually. But in this case, we cannot. We cannot at all. We have to relate with That, which is everywhere, so to speak—not to become too religious. [
Laughs.
] It is everywhere because it has its own expansion, everywhere because it is active everywhere at the same time.

S:
Would that relate to compassion in any way, that softness?

V:
Yes. Accommodation, of course, definitely so.

S:
Thank you.

V:
Ruth, are you still waiting?

S:
Last night we were talking about space, this vast space which was filled with terror. And we made a great leap tonight into this combination of the journey of
E
and
VAM
coming to the point where pain and pleasure are one, into the great bliss. But it is not very clear how the terror turned into bliss.

V:
Well, you see, what we are doing here is trying to point out the highlights. What could happen. What might happen. It is a question of presenting. I could come up with a piece of something with joints, and another piece with joints, which might not speak because it’s been well oiled. It is your job to join those two pieces together. The puzzle-work is left to the students actually, at this point. I don’t want to be mysterious about that, but I think you could give more thought to what’s been said in connection with this idea of joints, joining things, putting it together. How we could make things work, and make a robot out of that—make a Buddha out of it, or a Christ out of it, whatever have you. So the subtleties seem to depend on you, actually. I don’t want to go to great lengths, how you could be so subtle. That would be very dangerous, teaching you a new game, which would be fundamentally deceptive and destructive at the same time. So I would like to leave it up to you people here to at least figure out what’s going on. [
Laughter
]

Well, friends, I think we are getting rather early already. Maybe unless there is some announcement—any announcements? Okay. Well, have a good sleep, and a good dinner if you haven’t had one already. [
Laughter
] Thank you.

TALK 3

Missing the Boat

T
HANK YOU FOR BEING PATIENT.
I would like to continue with what we discussed previously. At this point, we are beginning to set out the basic pattern of the whole thing, the concept of
E
and
VAM
altogether. We have laid out the groundwork of the
E
principle and the
VAM
principle, somewhat, and how we can actually relate with such vast mind to begin with, once we begin to realize how vast, enormous, the basic area that style of thinking, known as Buddhism, covers. It covers an immense area altogether—vast.

The introduction to this particular issue has been somewhat vajrayana oriented over the past two days, of course. And now, hoping and thinking that you people have had some groundwork and that some understanding has taken place already, that you studied and so forth—in turn, I feel myself somewhat relaxed in presenting the material at this point. However, having presented the basic ground, basic map already, we must come back, so to speak, to reality. E is the accommodation, the container, and
VAM
is what is being contained in the situation—personal experiences, domestic, physical, psychological, metaphysical, what have you. So tonight I would like to backtrack, so to speak, from tantric “hoo-highs” of all kinds. The tantric presentation is interestingly inspiring; nevertheless, it is not all that practical, shall we say. [
Laughs.
]

Here we are, back to square one, in spite of glory possibilities, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. However, the
EVAM
principle can be approached on several levels, so to speak: the foundation level, the level of activities, the level of greater magic and powerful subtleties. These levels are divided into the three principles of hinayana, mahayana, and vajrayana. These three sections are not actually divided, but they come along that way, like infanthood, teenagerhood, and adulthood. Those stages are not actually divided, although we decide to do so by labeling people in a certain way; nevertheless, it is a natural growth that takes place. From that point of view, there are no sharp points per se; nevertheless, there’s a sense of a basic growing process taking place on this journey, the three-yana journey.