The Mammoth Book of Hard Bastards (Mammoth Books) (50 page)

British Bare-Knuckle Fighting Champion

Introducing … Roy Shaw

Jamie:
Roy, if I were to ask you what you feel makes tough guys tough, what would your answer be?

Roy S:
Circumstances on the day, circumstances on their
upbringing,
circumstances on their way of life. For example, I was bullied and circumstances forced me to deal with that. Then later in life I had the same from authorities and had to deal with that. I often get young kids write to me via my website to ask me how to deal with bullying but it’s not something that I can answer. How can I advise a young kid to go and smash someone’s head in? It’s what I think but I cannot write back to young kids and advise them to use violence so I end up not replying at all. It makes me feel sad for them because I was bullied and know what it’s like but I cannot be put in that situation where I’m advising young kids on what to do. My life was pretty unique due to circumstances and I would not advise anybody to copy me.

Jamie:
Can you define at least one attribute that you would attach to a tough guy?

Roy S:
That they can fight or are prepared to fight.

Jamie:
I believe that anyone can go to a class and learn the physical side of an art and the thinking problem-solving side, like “what to do if X happens”. But I do not feel that you can learn the feelings, attitude, emotions, and values of affective learning, which I believe can only come from life’s experiences, making you what you are, be it tough or soft, bully or victim, etc. What are your views on this?

Roy S:
I think if you join in with some kind of group that get involved in fights then you will get the courage to have a go
somewhere
along the lines but I was a straight kid and wasn’t involved with gangs or other groups of kids. My dad died when I was ten which was a blow for me but it still didn’t make me violent or anything like that. It was only after I was sixteen and became a hard-working lad that circumstances changed things and I started robbing banks and getting in trouble with the police.

Jamie:
If I was the most passive person on this planet, afraid of my own shadow, could I be converted into a tough guy, afraid of no one?

Roy S:
I think it can work for some people who are not naturally tough. My grandson was only ten when he was getting bullied so I took him down the gym to teach him how to fight. After going for about nine months he could punch the bag fairly hard and could lay someone out of his own size. He has surprised me, but he still didn’t go out because he was frightened of getting bullied. He needed to build up his confidence. It was exactly the same for me. I lacked confidence even though as a kid I was physically capable of knocking people out. One day I just found that I was sticking up for myself against one of the bullies and from then on it all come together and I turned into Roy Shaw the Hard Bastard somewhere along the line. Well, that’s the label that some people attached to me and not one I chose myself.

Jamie:
How are we to know when to choose “fight or flight”?

Roy S:
The adrenaline rush chooses for you. Every time I got the rush I would fight but some people decide to not fight when it comes. It left me alone for quite a while but recently I was in this club and there was this geezer who had raped a bird. I went over to him and there were these other two lumps with him but I didn’t give a fuck. I psyched myself up and let him know that I knew he was the one that had raped this girl and then knocked him spark out. I don’t give a fuck if there are loads of them, like when I did four of them, when I get that adrenaline rush, nothing is going to stop me. You know how it is, you’ve done the same.

Jamie:
Does a martial art black belt or boxing title mean someone is tough? If not, what does it mean?

Roy S:
It means that they are tough as a boxer or martial artist and have the capabilities to use their art in a real situation but it doesn’t mean that they automatically will. I’ve never done martial arts and to my knowledge never fought one so cannot really speak on their behalf.

Jamie:
Can you put all the tough guys you know of into any sort of category, i.e. they are mostly from the forces, or mostly from broken homes etc.?

Roy S:
I suppose the working-class breed the majority of tough guys. You don’t really see royalty or rich kids boxing. The actor Mickey Rourke was someone with money that could look after himself but he was like that before he become rich and famous. When I was in France he asked me to go to America and look after him when he was in his prime as an actor but it was not for me, I didn’t fancy it.

Jamie:
Can you take somebody and make him or her tough? If not, what is the nearest you can get them to what you consider as being tough?

Roy S:
Well, I’m a good example. When I left school at fifteen I was quiet calm and only six stone one, and had a history of being bullied. I took up boxing and soon realized that I had the gift of being able to punch and the aggression that I never had; all seem to suddenly fall in place. I had a good trainer and that can really help you to develop. Even if a trainer hasn’t got street-fighting experience himself, he can still teach you and get the best from you if he
understands
and knows what he is talking about.

Jamie:
As a young lad I had a pal, who many others and I
considered
to be the toughest person we had ever known. He was a brilliant street-fighter who was rarely defeated. I met him fifteen years later and he was a shadow of his former self, practically flinching if anyone came near him in a threatening manner. It was like his spirit had been broken. Do you think a tough guy can be made to be or become un-tough? 

Roy S:
I’ve never known it! People mellow with age and mature but I’ve never seen someone who could have a “row” suddenly not be able to do it? Maybe a personality change is possible but it’s not something I’ve come across. Having a family kind of controls you because you do not want to bring your aggro on their doorstep. I’ve got a mate who was a right rascal in his younger days but now he has got a couple of kids he doesn’t even go out. He just cannot be bothered with the aggro but it doesn’t change the fact that he is still capable; he just can’t be bothered with it all. He has got more important things in his life now.

Jamie:
Do you think it is possible to sense that someone is tough just from the way they carry themselves?

Roy S:
Yeah, they have an aura about them that you can sense. People like us have got it. It attracts similar sorts of people towards you and that’s how you end up with a group of mates who can all handle themselves but it also attracts the mugs to you that wanna be tough.

Jamie:
Is it possible to act tough without really being tough?

Roy S:
Not really, you can smell out a fake or plastic gangster a mile off. They don’t kid anyone but themselves. A lot of mugs try it but they get caught out. You can only act tough for so long before someone will end up doing you.

Jamie:
How would you deal with a tough guy who is in your face prompting you to kick off with him?

Roy S:
I don’t really get it happen to me these days. People seem to be more respectful because I’m not the kind of tear up merchant that I used to be. I’m more passive in my attitude when I go out these days. However, if someone does try it on with me I will choose my reaction more wisely than I used to. I will still do them but I may bide my time to avoid witnesses and getting nicked. I had a situation at the country club last week. As I pulled up and stepped out of the cab there was a tear up going on and suddenly someone shouted “Look out, it’s Roy Shaw,” then the whole thing broke up!

Jamie:
Is there a difference between men and women with regards to their toughness, i.e. would you be happy to let women take the place of men on the front-line of pubs and clubs etc.?

Roy S:
No, women are not really fighting machines, are they? I don’t even like to see them in organized boxing events. Their bodies are not made up for being punched and that. They have got boobs and have babies. They are not made to fight like men, they are too delicate. Women are to be respected, and not be beaten up or work the doors.

Jamie:
What do you feel the role of martial arts, boxing, or other fighting-related arts have in making tough guys tough?

Roy S:
It can help give people confidence. I did boxing so I would teach boxing to give someone confidence whereas you do it with the martial arts. I would probably teach martial arts as well had I ever studied it but I haven’t.

Jamie:
Do you think that regional accents have any connection to toughness?

Roy S:
No, not at all. Some regional accent like the East London or Scottish accent can make you sound tough but it means nothing.

Jamie:
Are you tough?

Roy S:
No, but I can look after myself. A bit like you when you say that you’re not tough but you are capable, well I’m not tough but I can look after myself.

Jamie:
Does your current training system or method of training prepare you when confronted with a tough guy?

Roy S:
The boxing has made me the person that I am.

Jamie:
Is your current training system gearing you up towards toughness in any way?

Roy S:
Well, I still do my weights as you know from the training session just now, plus I do my running each morning with my dogs but my knees play up a bit now from all those years of
powerlifting
, dead-weights and squats.

Jamie:
Is there anything else you or anyone else can do to become tougher?

Roy S:
If you are a weak kid then you can spend time in the fighting arts training to become tougher. It will happen over a period of time if you persevere.

Jamie:
How many tough females can you name?

Roy S:
None. I don’t really see females as tough; I see them as lovely human beings. I don’t want to see them in any other way.

Jamie:
What do you think attracts people to villains, gangsters and fighters?

Roy S:
I don’t think many people have got the arsehole to do a bank robbery or things like that or do the time in prison that goes with it when you get caught. Not many could go through Broadmoor like Frankie Fraser. People
wish
they could do the same but they can’t.

Jamie:
Do villains exist today as they did back in the 1960s?

Roy S:
No, the “Old School” could have a row, stand up for
themselves,
had respect for each other, loyalty, all the things that make a good man. People are robbing each other in business and nicking cars and think they are gangsters. They are just paperback
gangsters,
wannabes. You cannot be the real McCoy without doing your apprenticeship. Knowing people that are gangsters does not make you one. You are what you are, no matter what you tell people. Bit like that mug gangster that lived across the road to your old mum in Canning Town. He couldn’t kid me, your mother or Frankie Fraser because we were all from the Old School.

Jamie:
Is your life story going to be made into a film?

Roy S:
Well, put it like this. We’ve been given £75,000 up front to give them the option for six months with another £100,000 to come on the first day of filming, then 6 per cent of the gross profits so I sure hope so. It’s to be called “Propaganda” and its being done by an American company. It looks like Ray Winstone is gonna play me in the film.

Jamie:
It goes without saying that you are one of the toughest guys in Britain regardless of if there are two, or two thousand tough guys. Are you able to control that anger that you once had or do you still explode? For instance, if someone spilt your beer in a pub would you consider it something worth fighting for? Or if someone cut you up in a car in road rage?

Roy S:
I wouldn’t fight over a spilt beer but I did get cut up by a guy in a car outside my house the other week so I got out and knocked him out. I drove up the road after and sat for a while just to give him a chance to come round and piss off, so no police were involved. When I come back to my house twenty minutes later he was still spark out slumped over the steering wheel of his van.

Jamie:
I would give my life for my children. What would you be prepared to give your own life for?

Roy S:
I’d fight for my two dogs, my family, a friend or anyone who I knew was suffering.

Jamie:
We often hear it said that “if anyone touches one of my kids I will kill them” but the reality is that children do get harmed and killed but we don’t see parents killing in revenge. Why do you think that is?

Roy S:
Because paedophiles move away and are untraceable. If they committed a crime against a kid and stayed living locally where people could get to them then they would not last long. We would do them inside the nick if we could get to them.

Jamie:
What would make you kill?

Roy S:
Next question.

Jamie:
What would you do if you saw somebody mugging an OAP or battering a child or animal?

Roy S:
Jump them and sort them out.

Jamie:
Do you think that the journey travelled, pain suffered and life you have lost is worth the wealthy lifestyle you have now?

Roy S:
I wouldn’t change anything but wouldn’t advise anyone else to do what I’ve done because the cream years of my life are gone. But none of the screws that tried to make me suffer have the
luxurious
lifestyle that I have now.

Jamie:
Many youngsters and the not so young look up to you as a hero and role model that people can triumph over disaster. This is a big responsibility to bear because you are famous now and many people aspire to be like you, so how does that make you feel?