The Nuremberg Interviews (31 page)

In April 1939 Hitler presented him the golden party emblem, dated March 16 and 17 — the Führer said it was a reward for the march into Czechoslovakia. Walter von Brauchitsch received the golden emblem at the same time.
¹
Although in 1944 soldiers could become party members, he says he never became one insofar as he knows. However, he did send in a donation to the party at the time, and data for enrollment in the party.

He accompanied the Führer constantly and attended party functions. He denies attending secret conferences of the party leadership. In fact he was told by Hitler he was not to attend.

He received no decorations except the Iron Cross, in 1939–40.

His attitude is: “I am a soldier and I worked for the kaiser, under Ebert, Hindenburg, and Hitler, all the same way, for the past forty-four years.”

Like Goering, he wants to assume “full responsibility.” He intends to take responsibility if there was anything “wrong” done, rather than allow frontline commanders to take such responsibility. “I believe German soldiers are good and decent, and if they did anything wrong it was because of military necessity.”

He admits that there are orders and directives bearing his name, and that they were not in accord with existing international law. Particularly regarding the group of directives before the attack on Russia, he feels they were justified from an ideological standpoint. Until February 1938 Werner von Blomberg was commander in chief of the army; when he resigned, Hitler took over this function. From then on Hitler gave orders directly to the army, navy, and air force. No one issued orders independently of Hitler. Of course “I signed them” is Keitel’s attitude, but they originated with Hitler. “It was the wish and desire of Hitler to have all power and command reside in him. It was something he could not do with Blomberg.”

“I had no authority. I was field marshal in name only. I had no troops, no authority — only to carry out Hitler’s orders. I was bound to him by oath. One of Hitler’s prime ideas was that each minister and functionary was to mind his own business. That’s why I learned about some of the business for the first time in court.

“I had no idea of Hitler’s general plans. I was told to confine myself to military matters only.

“In 1938, when Blomberg was retired after his scandalous marriage, Hitler asked me to recommend a successor. He did not want Goering — now I see why. He had his own plans and did not want to confide in anyone.

“I was in it up to my neck by the time I realized the way things were going. What could I do? I could not resign in time of war; if I refused to obey I would be killed. Or I could commit suicide. On three different occasions I
thought
of resigning, but it was impossible.

“As for Jewish measures — I tried to keep the army clear of anti-Semitism. Hitler decreed that World War I veterans who were Jews would be safe. But even this went to pieces. What could I do?” How did you happen to become an officer? “I became an officer because in Prussia usually an officer was considered more highly than a businessman or other professions.

“I never knew of the linking of the army with atrocities. I see now how it all happened. We had too many connections with party organizations.”

Hitler? “I understand him now. He must have known of these atrocities and to what purpose he was using me and the army. I was never really close to the Führer. He always had secretaries present when I saw him. It’s true I represented the army at various festivals — such as placing wreaths on the monument of the fallen of the Munich putsch.

“There are three reasons for Hitler’s failure: One, action against the church — every man must be religious according to his own fashion. Two, persecution of Jews. Three, the power of Himmler and the Gestapo.”

Did you realize these three factors earlier? “Only since the end of 1944.

“I am no field marshal; I never commanded troops. A field marshal should be a tactician.” Was Hitler a tactician? “I thought he was a genius. Many times he displayed brilliance. I often told him he should have a better tactician as chief of staff, but he said it was his responsibility as commander in chief.

“He changed plans — and correctly — for the Holland-Belgium campaign. He had a remarkable memory — knew the ships of every fleet in the world.

“Hitler’s decision to attack Russia was because he feared the Russians might cut off his oil supply from Romania. We required 350,000 tons of oil a month for war. We got 150,000 from Romania. The air force needed 100,000 tons a month alone. The attack on Russia was an act of recklessness.

“Hitler was a smarter strategist than Goering or Ribbentrop.” I didn’t know Ribbentrop acted at all as a strategist. “No. He didn’t. Neither do I. But I mean in the field of foreign policy.

“We could not march into England because we were not sufficiently prepared. We didn’t have the ships. We could take Gibraltar, but General Francisco Franco would be afraid to allow that step. If we did nothing, England would tighten that ring around Germany and shove us out.

“Hitler proceeded as if the Russian campaign would certainly be a victory, but it would not be — I can see it now.” Why not then? “Because I believed in Hitler and knew little of the facts myself. I’m not a tactician, nor did I know Russian military and economic strength. How could I?

“Hitler acted as if that war was inevitable. How could I know Chamberlain and Édouard Daladier and even Roosevelt were trying to avoid war?” What about Munich and Daladier? Keitel looked uncomprehendingly. “It all goes back to Versailles.” I’ve heard that before — just how? “Everyone — all Germans — said, ‘Down with the Treaty of Versailles.’ They blamed the Treaty of Versailles for our unemployment and national difficulties.

“Hitler gave us orders — and we believed in him. Then he commits suicide and leaves us to bear the guilt. He should have remained alive to bear his share.

“If Hitler had not succeeded so well in the beginning — for instance, the Ruhr. We took the Ruhr — marched in with only three battalions. I said, how can we do it? But Blomberg said we could — we could rely on the lack of French resistance.

“Also, not only the Rhineland (1936), but the annexation (1938), without even our armies in action. And we were prepared to act or withdraw depending on the situation.”

Keitel is the wooden soldier, the wooden ingratiating smile, yet suffering from the human woes of love of attention, desire for approval.

Interviewed early this evening, an hour or so after court ended for the day, he said he felt tired out, but was very glad to see us (Triest and myself) and invited us to sit down. I told him to lie down and we brought another chair into the room. Keitel lay stretched out on his cot, puffing his pipe.

He said that the trials were wearing, but that it was mainly sitting in
the upright position all day which tired him so. He felt very grateful, he said, for a personal visit, and hoped I would come more often. He has not had much of a chance to tell me all about himself as a person, and he knows that as a psychiatrist that is my main interest. He did not look too comfortable as he said that, but he did smile and attempt to be quite cordial.

“The last time you saw me was two weeks ago. I mean the last time we had a long talk. Where were we? Oh yes, I was telling you of my career and my relations to Hitler. What would you like to have me speak about today?”

I replied that it was of no consequence, and that I just wanted to pay a visit and see how he was getting along, physically and emotionally. Keitel puffed on his pipe, thoughtfully. He said, after a short pause: “I always wanted to be a country gentleman, a forester, and look what a muddle I got into merely because I was weak and let myself be talked into things. I am not cut out for a field marshal. The happiest time in my military life was when I commanded a division and was independent. In a division, it’s your own little world and one can run it ideally, and without politics, as one desires. But I only had a division for a short time during maneuvers before the war.” I told him to say anything that came into his mind. “I might as well start from the beginning. I didn’t have the chance to say these things which are closest to me in court during my defense. The justices would have ruled it out as irrelevant, which is true. But to understand how I came to this criminal dock, it is important perhaps for a psychiatrist to know, just as it is important for myself.

“I was born in Braunschweig, September 22, 1882, in the country, near a city, but in the rural atmosphere of Lower Saxony. My family for over 150 years were farmers in Braunschweig and Hanover. My father, and grandfather, and great-grandfather were all farmers. At first they leased estates, but from the time of my grandfather they owned them. My great-grandfather had two large leases on two big estates in 1866 when Hanover became Prussian. My family immigrated because Braunschweig was not Prussian. It was the kingdom of Hanover, the county of Braunschweig at that time. Braunschweig was the last remaining part of the old English Hanover in Germany. Hanover used to belong to the English crown. Once there were kings of England who ruled Iceland, Braunschweig, and Hanover.

“In 1938 Hitler wanted for Europe what Bismarck wanted and
accomplished for Prussia in 1866. Bismarck actually succeeded with his union of Germany in 1871, and Germany became an imperial state. The king of Prussia became the emperor of Germany.

“Hitler on the other hand wanted to found a Middle Europe, to unite all those people who spoke German. This included the German part of Austria, German part of Czechoslovakia, and only the Prussian part of Poland, the part which became independent through the Versailles Treaty.”

I asked Keitel whether or not he thought Hitler wanted too much. “At any rate he wanted too much too fast. It couldn’t be done by force. It lacked the agreement of the smaller nations. But Austria in modern times could not live without an alliance with Germany. In these times of the radio, telegraph, and airplanes, those little countries couldn’t live independently without a bigger country.

“I grew up in a small village in the country. I had nine years of gymnasium in Göttingen, graduated high school, and became a soldier. I became a soldier only because it was impossible for me to be independent in the agricultural field because of low family finances. My original youthful inclinations were farming and forestry. I’m still a man who hates life in the big city. I love the loneliness of the country. I’m very close to nature.

“Later I grew to like being a soldier, but I always nurtured the quiet hope and plan to become a farmer later on. That was always my aim — to become a farmer.

“Then came the First World War. My wife was also the daughter of farmers, but she was in good financial circumstances. I hoped that when my father became old I could take over his estates and buy out the shares of my brothers and sisters. But after the First World War my wife lost all her money in the inflation. And by that time we had five children and I had to bury all my hopes and plans. Therefore I remained in the army — because I had to earn a living for my five children.

“In 1934 my father died — he was over eighty years old — and he willed me his estate. In 1940 I succeeded in obtaining my sister’s share, and then, through the will of my mother, to pay my brother for his share. I didn’t have to live from the surplus of the estate but had my independent salary as a general. I used everything which the estate brought in to pay off the mortgages.

“So I decided to withdraw my application for retirement, and continued
in the army in 1934. Werner Freiherr von Fritsch asked me to stay on. I agreed, under the conditions that I should be stationed near my home. Then I was advanced and advanced and we come to the time of Blomberg and later on Hitler.

“In 1938 I could not leave because it was by that time a matter of desertion because war was at hand. I couldn’t pretend I was sick because I was in good health. That is just about the way it actually was. I had only one wish — that there should be no war — and that I should be able to return to my estates.

“In the seven years from 1938 until 1945 I saw my home only twice, and then for only a day or two. Once I returned in 1942 to bury my thirty-year-old daughter, who died of pneumonia after she caught cold during a bombing raid on Berlin. She had slight diabetes and that lowered her resistance.”

I asked Keitel whether the death of this child affected him much. He said, with some feeling: “Yes. She was my favorite child. And it came on top of having lost my youngest son in 1941 on the Russian front, only six weeks after the Russian war began. He had been severely wounded during the French campaign but had recovered. When he died he was but twenty-one years old, and he was a lieutenant. He was killed before Smolensk in July 1941.” I wondered if his son’s death had made him bitter against the Russians. He replied: “Yes. It was quite unnecessary. He was shot by machine-gun fire from airplanes at the front.”

Keitel went on to state that his second son is listed as missing in Russia. He has had no news from him since mid-1945. This son is twenty-nine, was wounded twice, was a major on the general staff of a division. “He was the best officer of all my sons. He was clever and strong. He was born in 1915 when I was in France during the last war. My son had been cut off in Russia three times and managed to escape. This last was the fourth time. The whole division at the front was lost. It was the 563rd Grenadier Division.

“I have lost everything. In Berlin my home and household goods were burned. I have nothing left but two suitcases. My wife lives in my former home in Braunschweig, with my eldest daughter, who is married to the administrator of my small estate there.”

In all, Keitel had five children, two of whom are alive, his oldest son and daughter. The oldest son was a farmer and a reserve officer. After the war was on for two years, this son became an officer in a cavalry outfit.
At the war’s end, he was a major in charge of an SS cavalry division of ethnic Germans (Hungarians). He was ordered to the SS by the army. He participated in all the battles in Budapest. Shortly before the war ended he was again sent to the front, and is now in American captivity in the Darmstadt region, where he is in charge of a POW work battalion. He is married to the daughter of Field Marshal Blomberg.