Conversations with Myself (32 page)

30.12.97: bridal couple instead of arriving at 7 am for breakfast as arranged only came at 8.45 am. Their photographer from Rapport [newspaper] had to leave. Spanish couple left Ysterplaat [Air Force Base] at 10 am reaching Maputo at 12.15. Stayed at the nearest Govt [Government] Guest House to Gra’s [Graça Machel’s] residence.

31.12.97: Remained upstairs immobilized by severe sciatica. Visited by Comrade Presid[ent]. Joachim Chissano and informs me of the house arrest of K.K. [Kenneth Kaunda] and conditions of house arrest.
²⁴

Had dinner with Gra, and chdn [children] and watched passing of the old year and fire display from Polana Hotel.

1.1.98: Could not make family lunch and had to have lunch with Zina in my private quarters. Wished Zindzi and Rochelle Happy New Year.
Theron and physiotherapist

2.1.98: P.M. M

1.1.98: Nothing special – refused to return to S.Q.

4.1.98: H.C. [high commissioner]
came
Dr Hugo, Theron have lunch with Gra. Gave me 2 injections and returned

5.1.98: Argument with Judy, Gra over WM [Winnie Mandela]. I said I do not want to have relationship in which there are certain areas in which we cannot share. She’s part of your history.

6.1.98: H.C. in Moz [Mozambique] wants another 4 yr contract.

7.1.98: Met for 15 minutes my friend Jeremy Anderson, former Parks Director of the Mpumalanga Game Reserves. Congratulate Arap Moi on his inauguration as President of Kenya.

Telephoned Chief Antonio Fernandez from Maputo to Washington to wish him Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. He points out that he has attempted to contact me several times from Washington, but was unable to reach me. It sometimes pains me when dependable friends who have shared resources with us when we were all alone in our fight against apartheid, but who are regarded by the staff as mere strangers bent on disturbing the President.

19.1.98: Called on 9th floor Shell House and was informed that security was against my occupying an office on this floor and recommended that I go back to 10th floor.
²⁵
I flatly turned down their recommendation. Secretary-General Kgalema [Motlanthe] agreed with me.
²⁶
Also had a discussion with outgoing acting S.G [Secretary General] Cheryl Carolus on the above matter when I explained that I will attend.
²⁷

22.1.98: King Letsie III and I, in the presence of President Masire of Botswana launch the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. But had to leave without taking lunch because of weather conditions.

23.1.98: Visited the Acting Queen of Western Pondoland and the Queen Mother to pay my respects, arranged with Colleen Ross to admit future King Ndamase Mangaliso to Kearnsley College.
²⁸

24.1.98: Inspected Mr Zeka’s house which is on sale for R950,000. and asked for details of the bond.

24.1.98: Met Chief Bangilizwe, Dalaguba, Zwelodumo, Chief Sandile Mgudlwa, Chief Khawudle, Chief Silimela, and Chief Mnqanqeni.

24.1.98: Instructed Georg Meiring to dispatch helicopter to Tanzania.

24.1.98: Lunch with King Buyelekhaya and the Queen.
²⁹

24.1.98: Took call from President Clinton

25.1.98: Took call from President Museveni

63. FROM A NOTEBOOK

I was somewhat uncomfortable about the festivities at Qunu on New Year’s Day. On Christmas Day we had more than 1 000 children from the surrounding villages and about 100 adults. We had slaughtered 11 sheep, one of which was donated by Zwelibanzi Dalindyebo, King of the T[h]embus and an ox from Zwelithini ka Zulu, King of the Zulus. The crowd was in a joyful mood and they ate all the meat except the skin and horns.

On previous occasions my guests on New Year are normally less than those at Christmas. But on this occasion I had slaughtered only 12 sheep in the belief that this would be more than enough. You can imagine my discomfort when more people than at Christmas [arrived] and when some children who had walked kilometres to Qunu complained that they had not eaten. Next time I will not be caught unprepared.

Visited by Thandizulu Sigcau, King of the Pondos. In accordance with custom, I slaughtered a sheep for him, and gave him a second provision. He was not altogether in agreement with the suggestion made by his brother, Vulindlela Ndamase, King of Western Pondoland, to the effect that the King[s] should be members of the House of Traditional Leaders in their respective areas. I then suggested that I would prefer to be guided by them on the topic. I proposed they should meet to take a common position.

Also visited by Queen Cleopatra Dalindyebo, in the company of Chief Nokwale Balizulu, the ruling chief over our area. Drunkenness amongst Thembu Chiefs.

64. FROM A NOTEBOOK

How far are we in developing common data base Checking corruption Qualification of analysts Many illegal flights Travelling abroad on regular basis

65. FROM A NOTEBOOK

1.

We pass through this world but once and opportunities you miss will never be available to you again.

2.

Fix your aims and objects in life and, as a general rule, as far as possible never deviate from it.

3.

The ANC [African National Congress] understood this principle very well.

4.

In early 50s already we invited all S.As [South Africans] to send demands for a people’s charter.

5.

We also invited leaders of all political parties of that day to join us in preparing for a Congress of the People. NP [National Party], Liberal Party.

6.

Adopted basic policy – Freedom Charter which proclaimed that SA belongs to all of us.

7.

1961 called for Convention of the People.

8.

1984 ANC approached President Botha – meeting between ANC and NP.

Overthrow of white supremacy the work of the liberation movement – ANC, PAC, Azapo [Azanian People’s Organisation] in varying degrees.
³⁰
Transformation also collective effort.

9.

Initiative of ANC has changed situation. Polecat to a miracle

10.

Development programmes – Black and white Doors of World opened.

.....................................................................................

From a notebook.

1. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT HIS TRIP TO EGYPT

[Yasser] Arafat… was also visiting Egypt and I met him after meeting [President Hosni] Mubarak. Mubarak – I met him straight from the airport; I went to his palace and he received me well and we had dinner there, after I had briefed him about our situation and thanked him and the people of Egypt for their support. We had dinner, then I went to my hotel, and the following day I met Arafat.

That was a very hairy experience I had there because we had to address a meeting in a
hall
and we [were] escorted by the police to the meeting. But the crowd was frighteningly large and I realised what was going to happen. I said to the police officer, they should bring reinforcements and open a way so that we could walk through. They tried; they collected some policemen, more than they had given us, to escort us. Then the officer in charge said I must come out. I said, ‘No, let members of my entourage go in first,’ because I was afraid that the crowd was
so
big that if I went in first, there might be, you know, a rush, and pandemonium, and my delegation, you see, will not be able to make it because what the police were concentrating on was me, around me, you know; even cutting off my delegation. Then [the officer] tried to get my delegation, but a few steps away, he came back [and] says, ‘No, you can come now.’ So I came out. In spite of the cordon that they had formed, the crowd just
broke
through. You know, I lost one of my shoes as a result of the pandemonium. It had to be brought inside when I was in the hall… and I [was] separated [from] Winnie. They pushed her out…

They want to
touch
, they want to shake hands, and some of them, you know, can be very selfish… the members of the public. They catch you and they don’t want… to release you and other people are struggling to hold you… ‘
Oh
, I have been wanting to see you for a long time; what a day for me to catch your hand!’ And he’s holding you… You know, my hair was ruffled… and they
stepped
on my heel and [my] shoe came [off]. For about
ten minutes
they were looking for Winnie, and eventually they got her in. She was so angry with me; she didn’t talk the whole day! ‘Why do you leave me?’ I said, ‘What choice did I have?’ I was pushed left and right, and the soldiers themselves now, the police, were pushing me to make me escape from the crowd. I never even got a chance of addressing them because they wouldn’t keep quiet: shouting, you know: ‘Mandela!’… That type of thing, in admiration, you know. We tried to say, ‘Well, look I’ve come here to
speak
to you.’ They wouldn’t what-you-call, they wouldn’t give me a chance. And then I said, ‘Well, then I’m going away.’ Then some little order… but once I started, then they started [shouting] again. So we decided to go upstairs to the balcony

… and be able to address them from [there], but it just didn’t help. I… never [saw] such a
rowdy
meeting.
Rowdy
because of enthusiasm, because of
love
, you know. I never delivered the address. I tried several times… I had to abandon it.

2. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT HIS VISIT TO THE UNITED STATES

Oh,
but the Americans were very warm and
very
enthusiastic… It was of course very exciting to land in New York, which is a city I have heard and read about since I was an adolescent… I found, of course, our representative in the United States Miss Lindi Mabuza… accompanied by Thabo Mbeki, the head of the Department of International Affairs, Thomas Nkobi, the Treasurer General, Barbara Masekela who is now the head of the president’s office and… several others. We were then escorted by security to our hotel.

… I can’t remember… when the ticker tape took place… the sequence of events… That [ticker tape parade] was the most exciting experience I had in the United States of America… I knew that there was widespread interest in the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, in the United States of America, but to see that reflected in the conduct of the people when I arrived in New York was something very encouraging, very inspiring. The excitement of the people, the remarks they made which indicated unwavering solidarity with our struggle – in the street, in buildings, offices and residential… flats – it was just amazing; it swept me from my feet completely

… To know that you are the object of such goodwill makes one humble indeed. And that is how I felt.

3. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT HIS VISIT TO THE UNITED NATIONS

But I then spoke, but during the session our people had to send me home because we have a lot of friends in the United Nations and they came to shake hands with me, and I can’t shake hands sitting, you know? With diplomats and especially ladies – diplomats who are ladies – and when somebody comes you see I get up and I – I instinctively get up and shake hands. Now Thabo Mbeki and Frene Ginwala, members of our delegation, appealed to me to remain seated.
¹
I say, ‘But I can’t do that; when somebody comes to see me I must stand up and shake hands’ but they say, ‘You are disturbing the conference.’ I say, ‘Well stop them from coming to greet me. If you allow [them] to come and greet me, I have no alternative; I must stand.’ Then they said, ‘No, you go home. Go to, go to your hotel. It’s better for you to remain there instead of disturbing the conference here’ and that is how I left. [
laughs
] Yes. And they say, ‘You stay there until the conference is over, until this [United Nations] Security Council is over.’ And that’s what happened. [
chuckles
]

4. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT HIS SENSE OF THE AMERICAN SECURITY

American security is very professional, highly professional… They brief you on how to move [and they tell you] that the most dangerous moment is when you leave any place to [go to] your car and when you leave the car to [go to] your place. And they insist… on a swift movement… When you travel from one place to the other you are surrounded by security. It’s difficult to stop and talk to people as one would like when you visit a new place… [to] find out how they think and what their views [are] on a wide variety of issues. But security both… here and in the States won’t allow you to do that. Therefore, it’s very difficult to assess and to be alive to the differences in the various regions that you visit.

5. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT PRESIDENT CLINTON’S INAUGURATION

I have not seen such people gathered together in one place except [at] the Zion Christian Church in April last year where there were more than a million people… In this, what-you-call, place where they held the inauguration it’s a little hill… and then you can see the people going
down
to the valley, choking the streets… There was the platform, the stage… And then the whole ceremony started. It was done with a precision which was absolutely impressive… The capacity to organise such a big event was enormous… I couldn’t concentrate because of the warmth of the people coming to greet [me] and sometimes obscuring [my] sight of what was going on at the stage… So security, in order to protect me, also stood in front of me and even blocked my seeing the, what-you-call, the dais you see?… I was tremendously impressed by the warmth of the people towards the ANC [African National Congress]… I thought that people like Oliver [Tambo] and… others had done remarkable work in bringing the ANC to the notice of the people, to the notice of the Americans. Because… of the work that had been done by the organisation… people were so aware of who I was. And although it interfered with my… following the proceedings. But nevertheless I liked that, you see, because it was an expression of warmth and kindness and love. And then the speech of Clinton covered almost everything. It was global [and] very brief… He said what was necessary; I admired that. And then of course the way he admired Bush. It was clear now that the fight was over and… Americans were grouping together… to face their common problems… I thought that was a great vision.

[In the]… evening, there [were] dances and I went to one of them, and then I was told that I and Mr Kweisi Mfume, the chairperson of the Congressional Black… Caucus will meet Clinton in a holding room…
²
We went there, shook hands with him and [had] a number of exchanges; not much because he was on his feet… After that he then went into the hall. There was a band playing; he took the saxophone and played. And we all danced, we all jived, you know. [It] was very moving, very moving indeed… That informality on his part was also tremendous. To have a president, you know, who is so close to the people. He
has
a common touch and that tremendously impressed me. With all his dignity, but nevertheless that common touch.

6. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT THE 1990 CONCERT AT WEMBLEY STADIUM IN LONDON

I wanted to see Tracy Chapman and the Manhattan Brothers… I have always been intrigued by that young lady, and I was sitting in a box… when she came on the stage I was really excited and she then started playing… I was beginning to enjoy the music when… I was told that Neil Kinnock was here to see me and I had to come out. I was keen to see Kinnock because the Labour Party and its leader Neil Kinnock had been a
strong
pillar in our struggle, in the anti-apartheid struggle. They had demanded my release, and they had welcomed me when I reached London. They were very good and I was happy to meet him… but I regretted missing Tracy Chapman. But after I had seen Neil Kinnock then I went back to my seat [and] the Manhattan Brothers… came on the stage. Man, they evoked
such
memories of the fifties… Then I heard that the Russian ambassador… was there to see me.
Two
events… which I… looked forward to, I couldn’t see. At the end of the concert… I went to see all the stars and shook hands with them… I really enjoyed myself, but of course the security was interfering. [They] didn’t want me to be there for a long time… so I had just enough time to shake hands with [the performers] and to congratulate them. And of course I addressed the crowd itself.

7. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT NATIONALISATION

There was already a
furious
reaction in South Africa to the statement I made from prison where I said nationalisation was still our policy; we had not changed… Of course there was a reaction from the business community, and that reaction… set one thinking because one thing that is important is… [to] have the support of
business
… When I came out [of prison] we concentrated on explaining to business why we adopted the policy of nationalisation and, of course, American businessmen… put a lot of pressure… on us to… reconsider the question of nationalisation… From the point of view of encouraging investment in South Africa, one had to think seriously about the matter…

The decisive moment… was when I attended the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where I… met the major industrial leaders of the world… who made it a point

… to express their views very candidly on the question of nationalisation, and I realised, as never before, that if we want investments we will have to review nationalisation without removing it altogether from our policy… we had to remove the fear of business that… their assets will be nationalised.

8. CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT HIS TRIP TO CANADA

STENGEL: In Canada you were received by Mr Mulroney?
³
MANDELA: Yes, that’s right, and in Canada I addressed a meeting… and a lady then asked me a question as I was walking out. Brian Mulroney had given me five million dollars, and… this lady… [asked], ‘Mr Mandela, this five million dollars that you got from Mr Mulroney, are you going to use it for murdering people? As you have been doing?’ Now I wanted to respond to her peacefully and in a serious way, but before I knew [it] she was thrown out. They pushed her, you know, and she fell… I tried to stop the thing but I was late and so they hustled me out. She turned out to… [have] been a member of the PAC [Pan Africanist Congress]… And the way she looked at me and [said], ‘Mandela, this five million you got from Mr Mulroney, are you going to use it for
murdering
your people?’ [
laughs
]… Oh, gee whiz! They treated her very roughly.

9. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL ABOUT GOOSE BAY

In Canada, at a place called Goose Bay, we stopped there to refill before we crossed over to Dublin, and as I was walking to the airport building I saw some people just outside the fence of the airport and I asked… the official who was taking us to the airport building, ‘Now who are those?’ He says, ‘… those are Eskimos.’ Now I had never seen an Eskimo and I had always thought of them as people who are catching… polar bears and seals… I thought I should go and see these people… And I was grateful that I did that because these were young people in their teens, late teens… And as I chatted to them I was
amazed
to find out that these were high school children. They knew – they had heard that we were going to land and refill and…
I
was very happy to meet them and was tremendously impressed because they knew about the release; they watched the release and also they knew one or two meetings which I had addressed. And it was the
most
fascinating conversation, precisely because it was
shocking
. I was
rudely
shocked, awakened to the fact that my knowledge of the Eskimo community was very backward because I never imagined that [they] were [at] schools… and [that] they were just like ourselves. I never imagined that. Although I was in the struggle, the freedom struggle, I should have… know[n] that people
anywhere
, throughout the world, change from their less advanced positions…