Mavericks of the Mind: Conversations with Terence McKenna, Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, John Lilly, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld, Laura Huxley, Robert Anton Wilson, and others… (50 page)

RMN: If it were restricted to begin with, who should decide who can take the substance and who cannot? What are the qualities and qualifications such a person should possess?

LAURA That is the question. First of all, one would have to have experienced it oneself, and one should not try to get any gain from this at all. One's own opinions and personality should be put aside, at least as much as possible. It is difficult to put them aside all together, but one can try to put them aside as much as possible. If you are asking about the role of the guide, probably it is easier to say what the guide must not do: not patronize, not preach, not impose, not do nothing, not come to quick conclusions, not deny intuition, not believe intuition as if it were God dictated, not deny common sense, not deny evidence, not accept evidence only, not be intensely personal, not be intensely impersonal, not be only masculine, not be only feminine.

DJB: Is that not the same as the role of any guide or teacher?

LAURA Yes. However, if you refer to a period of therapy in general rather than one single psychedelic experience, I would add that, in the beginning, the guide dances with the student, imperceptibly, now and then, exchanging leadership. After a while, the guide dances the student's dance, but adds to it an higher octave and a rock-strong basso continuo. Dovetailed between the two, the student is supported and inspired in leading his own dance. Finally, strong and free, the student soars alone to new heights. Let me immediately add that all this is easier said than done, but I followed that famous quote of Browning even before I knew it: "Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's heaven for?" It's a bit tiring at times to stretch like that, but it gives life a fascinating flavor.

DJB: What role do you see psychedelics playing in the future?

LAURA That is almost like asking: what do you see for the future of this planet? We are at a point where just about anything can happen. If the negative happens, the psychedelics will have a bad role to play because many people will get sick on it. If what we tried to do-to encourage consciousness and responsibility-begins to happen, then psychedelics would be a help. Finally, it is the interplay between the outer stimuli which continuously effect us and our reaction to them--and to what extent are we responsible for our reactions? We can say I am 100% responsible, and that is a lovely thought.

But how much of the 100% is our destiny and how much is our personal will? And when do we follow our destiny and when do we follow our personal will? I think it is lucky that such a question, it seems to me, cannot be answered totally, because should I believe that i am totally at the mercy of my destiny, then I may become lethargic and be just a leaf in the wind. On the other hand, should I believe that I have full powers over my destiny, I would become a harsh judge of others who would appear to me to be just drifting. Years ago, I tried to devise a recipe entitled
Be What You Are
which was based on a line of Shakespeare. "Who is he who can tell me who I am?" I tried hard but never succeeded. I believe in the perfectibility of the human race and in the support we can give each other in evolving. But that is all I believe.

RMN: Do you believe that people who have seen further, and have more awareness, have a responsibility to others?

LAURA Absolutely yes. Those of us who have been given more gifts certainly have a responsibility for others.

DJB: If you could sum up the central message that you got from the time you spent with Aldous, what would you say that you learned from him?

LAURA He said it himself. I can do no better than what he said. It was at this important meeting of outstanding scientists in Santa Barbara. Everyone was very serious, and they said, well, Mr. Huxley, what is your final advice after all these years of inquiry? He said, “I’m very embarrassed because I worked for forty years, I studied everything around, I did experiments, I went to several countries, and all I can tell you is to be just a little kinder to each other.”

DJB: That takes a lot of learning.

LAURA You're absolutely right. It takes a lot of learning and living and loving and suffering.

DJB: It seems obvious but it's not.

LAURA Often the obvious things are the ones that are the most difficult to understand and appreciate. It seems obvious that we breathe. You know we do breathe, but do we understand it? Do we appreciate it? No---we only begin to appreciate it when we suffocate.

DJB: How do you think the LSD that Aldous asked for as he was dying influenced his dying process?

LAURA It went so smoothly. He did ask for it and he knew exactly what he was doing. It is my belief that it made it very easy for him. This doesn't mean that it would make it easy for everybody else. Remember that this is, again, the process of one person--a person who had prepared himself for this event throughout his life. He asked for it at the right time, too, just six hours before he died. He asked for a big sheet of paper; he evidently knew that he could not handle small handwriting. Then he wrote his own recipe: "Try LSD 100 mm intramuscular." During the week prior to his death, I had been thinking that maybe I should mention it. I was alert as to when he was going to ask me for it. It was not until that moment, at about 11:00. Then he died about 5:00.

DJB: I read in one of your books that people seem to have two basic approaches to death. Some want to die in their sleep, and go as unconsciously as possible. Others see it as an adventure, and want to go as lucid and aware as possible.

LAURA Yes, that's right. Probably one of the reasons is whether one is naturally afraid to be unconscious or not. It seems to me at this point in my life, when I'm feeling good, my choice would be to be very conscious, aware of this process that must be fantastic. But it is easy to speak this way when you're alive and well. It is easy to speak this way when you are not in agonizing pain, when you're not undergoing the division of the body from its vitalizing essence. So I do not know what I would say
then
. But
today
I feel this way. What is the date today? Write down the time and date, because I may change my mind.

DJB: What do you think happens to human consciousness after death?

LAURA I think and feel that it goes on. I can't imagine that this extraordinary complex of feeling, thought, and whatever else, just vanishes. I believe that it goes on; but
how
is a mystery. Perhaps it goes on into vibrations, or into other bodies, or into something totally different and unknown to us.

DJB: I read about the medium and the bookcase experience that you wrote about at the end of
This Timeless Moment
; that suggested the possibility of contact with Aldous after he had passed on into the afterlife.

LAURA That was extraordinary wasn't it? I never speak about that because I wrote it with such exactness. I think that if I were to speak about it, I would not remember the moment, the time, and all that exactly. What I have written is absolutely correct.

DJB: Have you had any other experiences where you felt the presence of Aldous after he had died?

LAURA I went to one or two other mediums who also gave me a very strong presence, but not like that one. That one was...

DJB: Uncanny.

LAURA That's right.

RMN: Would you describe yourself as a religious person?

LAURA It depends on what you mean by religion. I don't know exactly. What does religion mean anyway?

RMN: In Latin it means "to be tied back," the idea being that one's spirit is bound to God in some way. I guess you can interpret God however you want.

LAURA Well, I eat God every day when I have a meal.

RMN: Okay, let's put it another way. What's your personal understanding of God, apart from food?

LAURA I think--I feel--that there is an immense power; something that is so incredible that we cannot even imagine it--it has so much more imagination than we have. So that when we imagine God, we just imagine as far as we can imagine. But our imagination is very limited when you think of all the flowers and stars. You think of a star, and you think of a cell, and it's mind-boggling.

DJB: Yeah, we can't even grasp ourselves, let alone a supreme being of cosmic proportions.

LAURA Exactly. How can we grapple with God when we don't even understand the simplest of things? I don't even know what goes on when I speak to you, or how you hear and how you interpret what you hear and how this influences what I am going to say, etc., etc.

RMN: Why do you think that people get so hyped up about religion, which causes so much war and devastation? Why do people get so worked up about trying to prove one god against another god?

LAURA I think that we've come once again to a basic problem: fear. Suppose that a person has been worshipping a certain god with millions of other people. That gives security. It is like saying, "Millions of us cannot be wrong; we have the best god." These persons' security is threatened by the possibility that there is another and a better god, the possibility that "Maybe I am wrong." It's again the fear, the fear of being wrong. Of course, I may be wrong; who isn't? But being wrong could be grist for the mill--the possibility of discovery. The greatest blessing of all time would be the presence of a
Genius of Love
who could diminish the Global Fear even a little bit. Fear is the most widespread, malignant, infectious disease.

RMN: Do you think you could define consciousness?

LAURA I would equate it with life, and life has many different levels of consciousness. In general when we say "consciousness," we mean that particular consciousness of which we are aware: the consciousness that becomes aware of itself. But there is a lot of consciousness that is, but is not aware of being, and of which we are not aware.

DJB: To some people there is just simply consciousness and unconsciousness.

LAURA Oh no, no.

DJB: Obviously there are many, many stages and levels.

LAURA Yes, oh yes. I believe that's why it is so interesting to be alive-because there is just so much that we don't know, because there lies forever still another surprise. How sad life would be for the person who knows everything!

RMN: Do you think that humanity is evolving towards, to use Nina Graboi's phrase, a "species-wide enlightenment"?

LAURA There are some good signs. The problem is that it is so slow. But if you compare what was going on in the Middle Ages--for instance, what was going on with child labor, and how people who were mentally upset were put into dungeons we see that there is an evolution. The point that my husband made again and again is that the real problem is overpopulation, which makes evolution much slower. Because there is such a large number of us, evolution is very slow. The more mass there is, the slower the evolution.

DJB: What was it that inspired you to write your beautiful book for children
OneADayReason To Be Happy
?

LAURA Because it seemed so natural. We think that children have such a good time; but often life is quite difficult for them. The same for teachers--besides parents, they are the most underrated, unappreciated, underpaid class in America. Teachers work hard to make school meaningful for children and children should acknowledge that. So I thought that children who do not yet read and write could have the equivalent of homework everyday, in the form of bringing to the teacher and class one reason to be happy they had that day; and then if a child says, "No, I have no reason to be happy; nothing is good for me, yesterday was terrible," then all the other children have an opportunity to surround him and say, "Look, we like you just the same and it's fine." There again such a little recipe, yet it could brighten the classroom and give the children the joy of being grateful; and to the teacher a measure of appreciation as well as a look into the student's life.

DJB: I was curious about how adopting a granddaughter at the age of sixty-three affected your life?

LAURA Oh! It affected my life! Tremendously! It is unbelievable. People sixty-three years apart are in different worlds, but it is very touching sometimes because she has this extraordinary kind of insight. Karen is seventeen now, and is just graduating from high school. She took me to all kinds of worlds that I had no idea existed. You see, I was brought up in a very conservative family in Turino, in Northern Italy--a totally different universe. Even if it were just one or two generations it would be different, but this is just so different.