Some of Tim's Stories (9 page)

It was great for me, because I got to go home at the end of the day instead of having to head back to a hotel. And the movie really looks like Tulsa, not L.A. One night when I was fourteen, a girlfriend and I were watching a movie at the Admiral Twin Drive-In and saw some “hoodie” guys trying to pick up these Soc girls. A few years later, I wrote that incident into the
The Outsiders
. When Francis came into town, the Admiral Twin was one of the first places I showed him.

Didn't you once drive past the Admiral Twin Drive-In at Tulsa and catch a glimpse of your Outsiders characters at the drive-in themselves, watching a movie within a movie
?

Many years later, as I was driving home from the airport, I looked over toward the Admiral Twin and saw the drive-in scene from
The Outsiders
playing on the screen. It was like looking into mirror, into mirror, into mirror—way back to that time when I was fourteen.

Your talent brought all of this wonderful artistry to your hometown, but after the films were over, your new colleagues moved on to other projects, other cities. Have you ever considered relocating
?

No, I've never considered relocating. In fact, halfway through
The Outsiders
, Francis said we worked well together, and he liked Tulsa, did I have anything else we could shoot while he was in town? I told him I had this weird book,
Rumble Fish
, but nobody got it. One day he walked in, waving the book, going, “I love this book—it's so weird; we'll make it weirder. We'll shoot it in black and white; the fish will be in color. And we've already got a cast here.” During the shooting of
Tex
, Matt had told me that
Rumble Fish
was his favorite of my books, one of his dream roles, and if he wasn't too old when it got off the ground, he wanted to play Motorcycle Boy. He said if he was really old—like twenty-seven—he'd direct.

You actually wrote the script for
Rumble Fish
while you were finishing up
The Outsiders?

Yes, we were still shooting
The Outsiders
, sometimes putting in sixteen- to eighteen-hour days. Francis and I wrote
Rumble Fish
on Sundays, and we got the first draft done in two weekends.
Tex
was coming out. So at one point in my life, I was shooting a movie, advertising a movie, writing a movie. But
Rumble Fish
was not a fun shoot. It was hot, and we shot all of it at night. I'd made a vow that I was not going to get close to any of the actors on the new shoot. Except, of course, Matt. I just wanted to stick with my screenwriting job at that point, and I did.
Rumble Fish
is Francis's movie. He did everything else.

You yourself have said that
Rumble Fish
was a different sort of story. Were you concerned at all in the early stages about how it would translate to the screen
?

I wasn't concerned, because Francis was one of the few people I've ever talked to who understood the book. It was about myth-making. The movie's much more visual, much stronger than the book, actually. It was an amazing experience for me as a writer to see Francis's interpretation, because it was just what I was thinking.

After your first movie appearance in
Tex,
you also had cameo roles in
The Outsiders
and
Rumble Fish.
What parts did you play
?

In
The Outsiders
, I played the nurse in Dallas's room, which was so easy, because I was so used to being hassled by Matt at that point. I was really kind of proud of myself, because I had to walk in, hit my marks, say my lines, set props down, and bump into Emilio and Tommy, who were coming to visit Matt's character.

What about your role in
Rumble Fish?

I played a hooker. When Francis asked me, I didn't think about the fact that we'd be working with the same crew from
The Outsiders
. There were thirty guys on the set and two women, and I was sitting around in that hooker outfit for days, because we'd get behind on the shooting. That was not fun, though it's funny now that I look back at it. In the scene, I end up grabbing Vincent Spano, who played Steve, and start unbuttoning his shirt. Did I do that? Oh, my God! When I watch all these movies now, they're more like home movies. I'm thinking, that's the day we were all sunburned, or that was the day I made Tom Cruise throw up because he ate too much.

Were you uneasy at all about being directed by Coppola? That put your relationship on a whole different footing; after all, he'd directed Pacino, Brando, the all-time greats
.

Francis was always really sweet to me. I've kept my SAG [Screen Actors Guild] card all these years in case he ever calls again. I'm ready.

Do you believe that working so closely with Coppola in the films also made you a better novelist
?

It certainly gave me a different take on my writing. I started thinking in terms of scenes.

Earlier you spoke of the new 2006 DVD release of
The Outsiders,
subtitled
The Complete Novel.
Is the movie even better now
?

I think so, because we shot the whole book. Francis was very adamant about that, but there was a lot of studio pressure before it was first released, and he cut the heck out of it. I was shocked the first time I saw it in the theater. So much of it was missing. I didn't say anything; I'm not a movie director or a movie editor. But it was chopped up into one action, one action, one action. Francis—it turns out—started getting the same letters I was getting, wondering why favorite parts of the book had been left out. Finally, he replaced twenty minutes of deleted footage. Francis is the only director I've ever heard of who went back and re-cut a movie because fans of the book asked him to.

He also added a lot of period music to the soundtrack
.

I think Francis was right to add the music. The original music was a little too grandiose for the story. I'm not very musically oriented, but I like Stevie Wonder's “Stay Gold” very much. And the music for
Tex
fits the rockabilly nature of that movie. I loved the soundtrack for
Rumble Fish
. Very startling at the time, and I've noticed that it really has influenced other soundtracks since then.

Your friend Emilio Estevez wrote the screenplay for
That Was Then, This Is Now
and starred in the film. Why do you think it hasn't received the same level of recognition as
The Outsiders, Tex,
and
Rumble Fish?

People wondered why I was letting a twenty-year-old kid write the screenplay, but I was the same age when I wrote the book. Emilio knew a lot more about screenplays than I did—so why not? I told him, though, that the studio would make him change the ending, which would ruin the whole impact of the story. As much as Emilio had been around movies, he still didn't realize how powerless the screenwriter was. There are a lot of good things about that movie, but it turned out to be wishy-washy.

Do you think there will ever be a film version of
Taming of the Star Runner?

There might be a film version. One time I did a screenplay for it and got paid, but it's hard, because the book's so introspective. As a matter of fact, when I was writing it, I was thinking no one's going to be able to make a movie out of this—two of the major characters are a kid and a cat. But I'm not concerned; I didn't write it to be a movie.

Ultimately, how well do you think the films have complemented your novels
?

I'm extremely happy with
Tex
and
Rumble Fish
, because they captured the spirit of the books so well. I'm happy with
The Outsiders
because not only was it a wonderful, wonderful experience for me, it also got recognition for some brilliantly talented boys. And it satisfies my fans. Kids wanted the movie.

You continue to admire good films. Earlier you mentioned
Brokeback Mountain.
Why do you think the movie appealed to you so much
?

Brokeback Mountain
is one of the first movies I've seen in ages that I've wanted to re-watch and figure out. The director, Ang Lee, made that movie work with his transitions from scene to scene. It's like a piece of literature that resonates in your subconscious. Every time I see it, I see something new. I also re-read books constantly. I re-read all of Jane Austen at least once a year.

Do you see any connection between
Brokeback Mountain
and your own stories
?

Not really, except that both are very character-oriented; and I always start with characters. I wanted to see
Brokeback Mountain
because I'd read the short story by Annie Proulx, which blew me away. It's so straightforward and sparse, it grabs your heart. Proulx's metaphors—and some of her dialogue—are incredible. The people who made the movie had the sense to stick with her story.

Have you ever considered developing a property directly for the screen
?

Yes, I've written two screenplays, one a paranormal western. If I don't get it made into a movie in a few years, I'm going to novelize it. That's how much I love it. And then I've got another one I developed with my friend Tim Zinneman. I hope to see that get to the screen, too. I've always said writing a novel is like doing an oil painting. You can make it minimalist; you can make it abstract; you can make it photo-realistic. But writing a screenplay is like drawing a coloring book, because other people—set directors, directors, actors—are going to come in and add their shades.

You're still showing up in movies from time to time. What can you tell us about your most recent cameo appearance
?

Tim Hunter gave me a call last year—he knew I'd kill to be on the set of a western—and said he was shooting a low-budget western,
The Far Side of Jericho
, in New Mexico. He invited me to visit for week and arranged for me to be an extra. I went to wardrobe and got rigged up as this old ranch woman. I'm still not sure if the movie's going to get released, or if it's going to go straight to video.

Your son, Nick, has become involved in the movie business. What are your hopes for him as he focuses on a medium that has been so gratifying for you
?

He hopes to go into film-sound engineering after he graduates. He recently did an internship at George Lucas's Skywalker Ranch and studied film-sound design. All I've ever hoped for Nick is that he'll get into a field, like I did, that he loves. It'll be like getting paid to have fun.

Why did you decide to return to writing with a children's book
?

My editor came to visit me, and we spent all afternoon with the age-old idea sparker, a bottle of scotch. We still couldn't come up with any ideas, so we started sharing kid stories, because his daughter is almost exactly the same age as Nick. I told about this trick that David had played on Nick in kindergarten. Nick came home the first day and said, “Dad, there's a kid in my class that has black hair like you, wears glasses like you, and his name is David like you. Now is that you?” My sensitive, politically correct husband said, “Sure, Nick, that's me. I get little every day and go to school with you.” Nick was very puzzled. He thought it wasn't true, but he didn't know for sure. And I have to admit I aided and abetted David. When Nick would come home and say, “Oh, it was so gross today; Kelly threw up,” I'd get him ensconced in front of the TV, run and call David, and tell him Kelly had thrown up in class. When David would get home, he'd say, “Nick, weren't you grossed out when Kelly threw up? Ugh!”

What was your editor's response
?

I happened to glance over at him, and he seemed torn between falling off the couch laughing and calling the Department of Human Services. He told me to write the story up, and we'd make it into a children's book. I'd read a lot of children's books to Nick by that time, and I knew what I liked, which was not many words on a page.

What were some of yours and Nick's favorite children's books
?

All the Dr. Seuss books. Some of the books I liked as a kid weren't necessarily the ones he liked. I love the Berenstain Bears. Of course, the old standby
Goodnight Moon
is everybody's favorite. The illustrations are just so fantastic.

How did you convert your family story into an actual storybook
?

I gave the story a plausible twist, because Nick was pretty clever at that age, too. He'd come home from school and have tests for his dad: “Okay, who lost a tooth today on the playground—was it Colton, was it Sam, was it Rob?” It didn't take long for David to figure out it was always the first name. Nick would always give him three choosements. “Choosements”—I thought that was a good word, so I used “choosements.” Another time Nick said, “You know, I have many tricks on my sleeve.” So I used that for the ending line.

This was a picture book
.

Yes, Random House sent me several books by illustrators they liked, and I got to pick my illustrator, who did very clever illustrations and even managed to put the dog in, even though I had never mentioned the dog. Also, there's a picture of the family sitting on the couch reading, which was very typical of us. Nick said, “You know I'm not redheaded,” and David said, “But at least I'm tall,” and I said, “And at least I'm skinny.”

How involved was the family with the actual writing of the book when you were working on it
?

They just listened to it. David got a huge kick out of it, because it was his deal, and it was a true story. We kept it up for almost a year. Nick kind of got a kick out of it because he was going to be in a book. We all three enjoyed it.

Were any of Nick's friends in the book
?

Yes. Colton's mom, Sam's mom, and Rob's mom bought the book because their kids' names were in it.

Since you were writing for little kids, did you have to work on softening your characteristic grittiness
?

Not my characteristic grittiness. There's not a grit in it. But Nick was mature for his age and had a very sophisticated sense of humor. At times, I may have overestimated other kids' grasp of the situation. I did have to work on that.

Did you have to make any other adjustments as you wrote for a younger audience
?

I just had to remember to keep the word count short. I thought I had, but the editor sent it back, saying I needed to cut it even more. He was right. It wasn't a book for children to read; it was a book to read to them. I remember when I was reading books to Nick that I preferred fascinating pictures with a little bit of story.

Was writing text for a picture book ultimately as satisfying for you as writing young adult novels? In other words, did you feel that the picture book was a substantive enough vehicle for your talent
?

No, not really. But it was right for that time in my life, because I wasn't ready to get totally involved in writing another novel. I wanted to be creative, but I just didn't have the energy or even the interest to delve into a novel, which takes a whole lot of focus and, for me, a lot of emotional energy.

How closely did you work with the illustrator, Alan Daniel
?

We never met, never talked, never e-mailed. But Alan was so clever, including a lot of puns on big and little, tall and short. It almost seemed like he was there with us. In the book, when Nick says he has a question for his mom, that he's just waiting until she finishes her coffee, because she is always nicer—well, that's the way we were. In the illustration, the mom's sitting with her eyes half open, her coffee spilling, just looking at her kid. Somehow Alan knew.

Did you write the book with the idea that the pictures would finish what you were saying
?

I hoped the pictures would entertain. And they did. One reason I picked Alan was because I thought his illustrations had a lot of energy to them, even when the characters were just sitting on the couch and reading.

How did the feedback you got from your younger readers compare to the feedback you got earlier in your career
?

I have to admit I had no fan letters from five-year-olds. I did have some from adults. My emotional books are the ones that inspire the most fan mail.

You followed
Big David, Little David
with
The Puppy Sister,
a chapter book for children. Wasn't this story also based on another real family experience
?

When I got through with
Big David, Little David
and still didn't have any idea what my next novel might be, I thought I'd look around the house to see what else I could write about. The Australian shepherd puppy we had brought home to be a sibling for Nick had made herself into a member of the family. I've always been an animal person—as a child I'd make pets out of bugs. But Nick wasn't an animal person, and there was so much sibling rivalry. He'd be going, “Mom, I'm playing Nintendo, and Aleasha's annoying me.” Then Aleasha would come running in, like she was saying, “He's supposed to be playing with me!” They finally bonded, and one day, when we came home from a walk, Nick said, “I think Aleasha's wondering when she's going to turn into a real kid like me.” And I thought,
There is my hook!

The fact that Aleasha wants to be a human kid
?

Yes, and have more fun like Nick. So through sheer determination, she starts changing herself. I hung the story on a year around the holidays. I figured if Aleasha spent her first year in dog years, she'd be seven by the end of the book. When she finally learns how to talk, Nick gradually breaks it to his parents, and, of course, they're shocked. I think the quote from the book is: “Mom sat down very suddenly on the floor and took a nap.” By Halloween, Aleasha's changed enough that she and Nick go out trick-or-treating as werewolves. And then at Christmas, she wakes up, can see colors for the first time, and calls them “smells for the eyes.”

That's a great line
.

I really like that line, too, even though I did come up with it. By spring Aleasha's become a human girl, goes to a baseball game, then catches a foul ball in her mouth. By the way, she and Nick were still squabbling.

You mentioned in one of our earlier visits that
The Puppy Sister
holds the distinction of being the only story, thus far, that you've written from the female perspective. What was it like for you as a storyteller, switching gender and species
?

It was fun. While Aleasha's watching TV, she sees some ballet dancers, stands up on her hind legs, twirls, and turns like a little girl. She has strong toes for ballet—and loves going to lessons—but she can also kick a soccer ball. I'd noticed that Nick and a lot of his friends were into fantasy, imaginative worlds. Their recipes for dragon stew would include lizard eyes and goat blood. But some kids, jocks, were more into their sports, and their recipes for dragon stew were basically potatoes and onions. So Aleasha was the athletic type; Nick was into swordplay.

How did you keep Aleasha from becoming a caricature
?

By never thinking of her as a caricature. I used Aleasha's personality as much as I could understand it. She could feel guilty, but then in an instant she chews all of Nick's toys, because she's so mad he's gone off to have fun without her. Which actually did happen in real life with some of Nick's plastic figures. When Nick comes back, Aleasha cowers, saying, “Oh I did it, and I'm so sorry,” which, I think, is a dog trait. In the end of the book, the pediatrician, who's been let in on the story, describes her as a perfectly normal little girl, very affectionate and enthusiastic. Aleasha jumps up, grabs Mom around the neck, and says, “I will always be enthusiastic and affectionate—whatever that means.”

You speak of your love of animals. Why do you think they play such an important role in your life
?

Probably as a child I felt like I could communicate with them better than with the adults in my life or even with my peers. I just always have had a strong communication with animals. There's less pretense.

What can we learn about ourselves by considering how animals like Aleasha might view us
?

When we take away an animal's ability to fend for itself, it's up to us to care for it. I had a cat that lived to be over twenty. She came with our house, lived with us for fifteen years, and turned out to be the animal my son bonded with the strongest. Even when she couldn't quite make it to the litter box and couldn't play any more, he could see that she was still a member of the family. We were obligated to take the best care of her we could. In a lot of ways the death of an animal prepares you for dealing with human death. When my horse Toyota died, I was with him until his last minute. The yet said, “Susan, are you sure you want to be here?” And I said, “You're not going to get me away from this horse; the last thing he's going to hear is my voice.” Animals teach us responsibility.

What are some of your all-time favorite animal books besides
Old Yeller?

When I was in grade school, I absolutely loved
Duff, the Story of a Bear
. I read that book over and over and over. And Marguerite Henry's horse books with those fabulous paintings.
King of the Wind
was one of my favorite books for many years. Then Ernest Thompson Seton's
Wild Animals I Have Known
. He made the point that no animal in the wild dies of old age, so naturally all of his short stories had tragic endings, and the animals were written about just as if they were people. I remember the story about the fox who could raid the hen house until the farmer figured him out. As a younger kid, I loved being outdoors, taking walks through the woods, so wild-animal stories are especially fascinating to me.

In your picture book and your chapter book, you get to display your sense of humor. Was that liberating for you? Your earlier work had some pretty serious overtones
.

My sense of humor is one of my strongest personality traits, but—I don't know why—these are the first books where it's really come through. Tex was inclined toward pranks, which I'm not, so even though he had a sense of humor, it was quite different from mine. So it was liberating to get to express that part of myself.

You've already established that
Big David, Little David
and
The Puppy Sister
are decidedly autobiographical. At what point does fact become fiction
?

Well, Aleasha didn't turn herself into a real human, but she did turn herself into a member of the family.

Would you agree with Grace Paley that any story told twice is fiction
?

That's a good one. Yes, and better for it.

In 2004 you wrote
Hawkes Harbor.
Why did you decide to write a book about a vampire
?

I don't really believe in vampires. The vampire actually was more of a character definition. My books show character growth. Jamie Sommers was fearless, but he's in a mental hospital, and one of the first things he tells his doctor is about the time he was smuggling jewels out of Burma, got captured by pirates, jumped into the ocean to save a ruby, and got attacked by a shark. The doctor thinks he's a nut case with an imagination, but his story turns out to be true. Something has happened to break him.