Jacqueline Kennedy: Historic Conversations on Life With John F. Kennedy (14 page)

In 1960, his back didn't trouble him much, did it—during the campaign?

No, I mean, he had the best health in the world. I think one reason was he was doing so much, too much. When he got in the White House, he took this nap every day—it was just forty-five minutes. He'd come—who could be bothered to get in your pajamas for forty-five minutes? —and he'd hit that pillow and go to sleep and wake up again. I mean, I couldn't sleep—it would take me forty-five minutes to doze off, but it was so good for him. Then all his back and his stomach and everything weren't always plaguing him. He just always overtaxed himself. And so he never was in better health or spirits than all his White House years.

Did he ever have trouble sleeping?

No.

Never took sleeping pills? Never—just always—

Sometimes, in a campaign, he would take one tiny little sleeping pill. If you got in late and you had to get up early and you were in some awful smelly hotel bedroom. I remember once there was a whiskey bottle under the mattress because the American Legion had had a convention in that hotel there before and there were whiskey bottles under all our mattresses. Well, you know, just to make sure he got to sleep so he'd be awake the next day. But, a little tiny thing, and then he wouldn't the rest of the time. Because you needed your sleep—my gosh, you only got about four hours. I remember I tried not to take any, and you'd toss and turn, so then I'd borrow one of his sometimes.

You were in Hyannis Port all the summer of '60, during the special session.

That's right.

And then, of course, you were there all autumn.

Let's see, I did a lot of things in the spring in Georgetown, and then I went to New York for that ticker-tape parade. The first debate I saw in my house in Hyannis and had people down from Boston. The second one—whichever one was in New York, I was there for. And the third one I was in Washington for—the third or the fourth.

Do you remember how he felt when the whole question of debates came up?

Oh, well, I remember the one in New York, which was the one I was with him for—how he just had piles of briefing books and he had sort of a busy day, but then he'd sit in a room for two or three hours and he had about five people there giving him every conceivable awful question you could think of. I mean, he really prepared for it—like sort of an exam. And, you know, was so confident—no, not so confident—but you know, he wasn't moaning or groaning or worried or anything. And then when he called me up at the one in Washington the minute it was over, that was—I guess maybe it was the second one in Washington—because he said on the phone they had the temperature here down to thirty degrees below zero, or something, because I guess Nixon had perspired in the first one—sort of laughing. But he really was quite confident.

What did you think during the first debate?

Oh, well, I thought what everyone else did. I just couldn't believe it. You know, it was so obvious. It was just so clear. That really changed everything. Jack always told me the thing that changed his '
52
campaign—this was before we were married—was his appearance on
Meet the Press
with Lodge.
²⁷
He said that that was the hump and then everything started to go his way. Well, that first debate was—I always thought it—but I was so glad that it was just so obvious. Because you could just see he'd won it, and hear it in the street and everywhere.

SENATOR KENNEDY IN THE FIRST DEBATE AGAINST VICE PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON, SEPTEMBER 26, 1960
AP/John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum, Boston

Was there any talk before that about the—I mean, the President obviously thought that the debate would be a great opportunity, if he could get it, but didn't suppose that Nixon would go along. Do you remember any of that?

Not really. I remember sort of talk on and off all spring about the debates. No, I don't know what made Nixon finally decide to—

This was his great miscalculation. And I think he did it because he'd been a champion debater at Whittier College and thought that he could win. I'm sure there was no—I think he thought that this would make the experience for him, if he would get up there with this young kid.

But I remember the talk in evenings of which debate would be—wasn't one foreign policy, one domestic?—I remember all those evenings when they were hashing out—a lot of people would come and they'd decide how the debates would be made up. But I don't really remember the leading-up-to-it part.

I know you weren't, because of John, weren't around, along, all the time on the campaign. Do you have any impression on whom the President relied particularly in campaign strategy and the like?

Well, himself really. Because whenever he was home you'd hear him calling and I mean, he'd be telling people what to do. I suppose he did rely on Bobby—didn't he?—most of all. Bobby—

And he always checked his judgment with Bobby. Didn't always take it, as in the case of Lyndon Johnson, but I think he always wanted to see what Bobby reacted—how Bobby would react.

Then his father was always—you know, I was so glad Mr. Kennedy had a chance to do something. But he would be taking Billy Green to Pavillon or something—or maybe that was all before.
²⁸
But he'd talk to his father too, but more to hear what his father reported. You know, all those old men—

John Bailey, did he matter?
²⁹

Oh, yeah, well, John Bailey—I don't really know—

He was the chairman of the committee—

Yeah. We always loved John Bailey. That's the first place we ever went when we were married, and Jack made a speech in Connecticut. But no, I don't think he was calling up John Bailey for advice.

As far as whatever I saw, it seemed to me he was really running the whole show himself.

Yeah. And then he'd say, and Bobby would say, and everyone—you know, "Nobody must ever get mad at the candidate." So that's where Bobby was sort of the buffer. And everyone who had a fight or then somebody hated Ted Sorensen in some state, and somebody else—there'd be two chairmen and which one would be the one. All those things Bobby would have to do, so that those people wouldn't get mad at Jack. You know, which Bobby gladly did. That's another reason—he got the sort of image of being someone people disliked, but he had to be so tough for Jack. And Bobby said that to me the other day—you know, it's so nice to have someone for you who can fight your fight—I mean, be the one that people get mad at—not at you. Just the way Frank Morrissey used to tell me that the candidate could never be the one to leave the room, so Frank Morrissey would have to haul him out. And he'd always be protesting, "No, Frank, I don't want to go yet."
[Schlesinger laughs]
But you always had people to protect you and do that for you.

Tell me, tell us, about the last day before the election.

Well, everybody was at the Cape. Oh, no—

You went to Boston—

Yeah, we woke up in Boston so we must have slept there the night before.

There was a big rally at the Boston Garden the night before. I think you were there, weren't you?

No, I wasn't. I was at the Cape, so I must have gotten up very early and been driven to
122
Bowdoin Street
³⁰
and from there we went to the voting place. Then we flew down to the Cape in the
Caroline,
³¹
and then that long day started. I remember we had fish chowder. You could still sit outside. And it's so funny, talking about the longest day, who should come running out from the garage in sort of a servant's part but Cornelius Ryan, who had written
The Longest Day
, with a print of a picture.
³²
We both said, "What are you doing here?" We didn't really know him—he introduced himself. So then Jack started questioning him all about
The Longest Day
and the this and the that part of it. And you should ask Ryan about that—and I guess he'd gotten in it through Pierre.
³³
Then you'd take walks and you'd go over to his father's house, to Bobby's house.

What kind of a day was it?

It was a cold, fall Cape day—very clear. But I know we lay out on the porch with blankets on us, sort of in the afternoon in the sun. Then he'd go over—Bobby's house had been turned into just a, you know, command post—I mean, radios, telephones, boards, workers. But Jack kind of stayed away from that. And then dinner—

How did he seem—

Sort of restless, but quiet. He'd go over there, then he'd try to take a nap.

He wouldn't speculate about things anymore—

Oh, no, he wouldn't talk about it. I mean, it was—you had what he loves—his fish chowder—and then he was picking Cornelius Ryan's brains about
The Longest Day
. That poor man was so amazed. Then we'd take a little walk because you knew that the really bad part wasn't going to get until night. And then—I forget which house we had dinner at, but afterwards we were all watching it in our house. I remember Connecticut came charging in. And I said to Jack, "Oh, you know, now you're President now," and he said, "No, no" very quietly. So I watched until, I guess, about
11
:
30
or twelve and then everyone knew that it would be an all-night thing. So then I was sent up to bed. And all the—it was so sweet—Jack came up and sort of kissed me goodnight—and then all the Kennedy girls came up, and one by one we just sort of hugged each other, and they were all going to wait up all night. And Jack slept in the next room that night. So when I woke up in the morning, I went flying into his room to see—just to hear the good news—to hear that he'd heard sometime while he'd been awake—and no, there wasn't anything.

He had gone to bed, eventually.

Yes, he went to bed I think about four or something, and this was about a quarter of nine or eight thirty.

Was he still sleeping when you came in?

Yes.
[laughs]

You woke him up?

Sprang him—and there was nothing, so then I woke the poor man up. Then you'd get up and then everybody walked around—you've seen those pictures—in raincoats. Up and down. Then the press people were sort of gathering and I guess it was about noon or one o'clock that the word finally came.

Nixon finally conceded then.

PRESIDENT-ELECT JOHN F. KENNEDY (CARRYING CAROLINE) AND THE FIRST LADY-TO-BE, HYANNIS PORT, THE MORNING AFTER THE 1960 ELECTION
Bob Sandberg,
Look
magazine/John F. Kennedy Library and Museum, Boston

And then—oh, then I had to see the press in Ethel's house—all those women saying, "What kind of First Lady will you be?" Those horrible women. And then we all had our pictures taken together in the big house. Then we were all going to go down to the Armory and Mr. Kennedy didn't want to come. So sweet, he always tried to stay in the background. I remember just grabbing him and saying, "You have to come now." He was so sweet. And we all went down to the Armory.