The Nuremberg Interviews (52 page)

It was a beautiful sunny day as we sat in Halder’s open cell, discussing his recent grippy feeling, “as if I am going to catch a cold for the past few days.” He said that he wished his cell could be changed from the north side of the prison to the south side, where there was better exposure. He said, “It was like this in Hitler’s prison. I had a cell on the north side.”

We went on to discuss his family history and the relationships therein.

Siblings:
Halder had one sister, a year older than himself, who died of grippal influenza in 1918, at which time she was thirty-five years old. She was married and had two sons, one of whom was killed as the result of a fall from his horse many years ago; the other is a major in the German army, a prisoner in an American POW camp. Halder says that he always had contact with these nephews, whom he regarded affectionately. His older sister, until her death, was his “closest friend.” Regarding her personality he seemed very vague and said, “It is such a long time ago; she had characteristics of both parents.”

Father:
He was an artillery officer who died of diabetes at the age of sixty in 1912. There was no other diabetes in the family. The father suffered from this illness for about twenty years prior to his death. “The doctors said that my father was in good physical health and that diabetes came because of overwork. I don’t know whether that is medically true or not.” Halder went on to say that his father became a major general in the War Ministry. “It might be interesting for you to note, because it is often said that generals in Hitler’s time were promoted so rapidly, that I followed my father’s career almost exactly. I became a general exactly at my father’s age, there being thirty years’ difference between us.”

I suppose these quick promotions were mainly in the SS? “Yes, in the SS, but also during the last years of the war in all branches, especially after Brauchitsch and myself were thrown out; then the whole nonsense started.
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You can see now all of the crimes were after Brauchitsch and my own time. Hitler was in charge of the army and could do as he pleased.”

We went on with the discussion of the family history. His father was
chief of artillery in the Bavarian War Ministry, at a time when artillery was being developed greatly. Halder states with pride that his father was one of the pioneers in the use of modern artillery weapons.

Asked about his father’s personality, he said: “He was a very tall, big, imposing man, two meters tall, whose disposition was cheerful and pleasant, but who had a very strict conception of right and justice. He was a man who never did anything wrong. Like myself, he never had any sense for making money and was devoted only to his soldierly duties.” Was he devoted to the children? “Yes, but he was strict toward the children as well as toward himself. However, he did have understanding and tolerance for the joy of childhood. We had the greatest respect and love for him and he never oppressed us in any way.”

What was the relationship between your father and mother? Halder weeps and his voice breaks. After a few moments he replies, “As nice as I could think.”

Paternal Grandfather:
“He was also a soldier but I didn’t know him. He was in an accident, falling from a horse when he was a captain, and died as a young man. My grandmother had three sons, of whom my father was the middle child. Conditions were very modest, one might even say poor. My family never owned any land. My parents’ home was always as simple as possible, but despite that it was warm — and I must still thank God for my childhood.” Halder is again tearful and has difficulty speaking because of being shook up with emotion. These emotionally labile states are quick to pass.

Mother:
“She died on the same day I was brought here to Nuremberg, on October 12, 1945. She was almost ninety. Just before she died she was told that I was still alive. She thought I had died in Hitler’s camp. That made her last year difficult. By the time I was permitted to write to her here, she had died.

“In 1944, during the big raid on Munich, my mother went to a cousin’s home in upper Bavaria. This cousin was married to an Englishwoman and had been in America. The cousin is now seventy years old. He allowed my mother to have a room in his apartment. I couldn’t take her with me because I had only a small apartment and no room. She died at my cousin’s home in upper Bavaria.”

When was the last time you saw your mother? “It was July 1944, just two weeks before I was taken prisoner by Hitler.”

Do you have much interest in poetry or music? “I like both, but I
never played any instrument myself. But in school and later I came to prefer scientific subjects. My wife is very musically inclined and the children also love music. My wife filled the house with joyful music and the laughter of children. My wife also participated in many sports, including tennis, for which I never had sufficient time. However, I participated in mountain climbing and I was always in the saddle. Even when I was chief of the general staff I would arise at 4:30 a.m., go horseback riding at 5 a.m., and later have breakfast. Perhaps that is why I am in good health. I became accustomed to missing so many meals because I was so busy.

“Life in the general staff since 1915 was difficult. It became even worse when war started in 1939. During my last year, in 1942, I averaged three or four hours’ sleep per night and once or twice a week I worked through the night without any sleep. The reason for this was that during the day we received all troop information from the front. After that came conferences with the various fourteen section chiefs. Then I had to have a few hours daily to work by myself — this could only be done about midnight. In between times the telephone rang continuously. You had to know how to work in a place like that without wearing yourself out completely.”

When Hitler marched into Poland, did you advise against it? “We had no right to do so. In the first place, I was under Brauchitsch. I spoke with the latter several times. That was the reason for Brauchitsch speaking very seriously with Hitler in the summer of 1939 just before the outbreak of war.” But what did you think yourself personally? “I honestly don’t think Hitler wanted war. The same with Brauchitsch — he didn’t think so either. Of course, when I tell you that now it seems as if I just want to say it because of present circumstances. But some time ago I received a letter from a former secretary of mine, in which she writes that my subordinates made a remark to the effect that ‘General Halder was not seriously considering war at that time.’

“You might not understand Brauchitsch’s and my opinions if you do not know Hitler personally. He was a man, as I told you the other day, who saved decisions for the last minute. When Hitler said you should be ready for an attack, it in no way had to be understood literally — it might mean he wanted to threaten someone with an attack.

“Before that, there was the Sudeten matter. During that time military preparations were bad. After the Sudetan crisis [1938] was passed, people
talked about such things as the poor military preparations.
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Hitler heard about it, and urged war preparations so that in the future people would not doubt Germany’s war potential again. During the Sudeten crisis the army had not been ready. Do I make that clear? People who knew Hitler never took his threats seriously. For instance, in the Sudeten crisis, Hitler published a written decision that he intended to solve the Sudeten problem with force of arms. That he did not do this is well known.

“In November 1939, Hitler expressed three times, once in outspoken form, that he had decided to overthrow Belgium and the Netherlands by force of arms. Despite that, two days before the march into the Netherlands in 1940, a special ambassadorial envoy stood by with bags packed, ready to go to the court of Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands to settle matters peacefully.

“On August 22, 1939, in a conference at the Berghof, Hitler said that negotiations with Poland were still under way. Therefore, we thought that it was just another bluff, this Polish question, like the Czech question. On August 26, 1939, Hitler issued a first order for an alert. Several hours later the order was rescinded and again it was said that negotiations with Poland were under way.

“Therefore, the reasons for Brauchitsch and myself believing as we did, namely, that Hitler was engaging in a game of extreme political blackmailing, became obvious. That there had been negotiations with Russia to occupy half of Poland we didn’t know until the present trials here in Nuremberg. Brauchitsch and I had no contact with the political situation. What we learned, we learned from Hitler. We knew we were lied to in the press, we recognized Goebbels’s lies, et cetera. It was impossible!

“I did have personal connections with a member of the Foreign Office, one of the chief state secretaries, by the name of Ernst von Weizsaecker. The latter had been prohibited by Ribbentrop to have any contact with Brauchitsch or me. But we did anyway. Weizsaecker didn’t know many things either. All of these things were done by Ribbentrop. So we had no clear picture except that we knew just what kind of game Hitler was playing and we knew it was a dangerous one. Therefore, I spoke to Brauchitsch, and he in turn with Hitler, but to no avail.

“On December 10, 1941, Brauchitsch retired, presumably because of serious illness. It is true that he did have several heart attacks, but he was
glad to use that as an excuse to retire, because the differences between Hitler and Brauchitsch were wider than ever. I can well imagine that the continual excitement and arguments against Hitler contributed to Brauchitsch’s heart ailment. He was not retired, because once one is a field marshal, there is no retirement; but he had no more duties.

“About half a year later, on September 24, 1942, I left my post, just as Brauchitsch did, except that I was not ill and it would have been most unlikely that I could get anyone to believe that a person in perfect health would suddenly become sick. I could do nothing else because my request for retirement was not accepted. As for playing sick, I couldn’t — I was well, nobody would believe me. If I wanted to break with Hitler I would have to behave badly.”

Were there any particular arguments with Hitler? “There were daily quarrels all summer. The point upon which we had our final disagreement was the decision of an offensive on the Caucasus and Stalingrad — a mistake, and Hitler didn’t want to see it. I told him the Russians would put in another million men in 1942 and get another million in 1943. Hitler told me that I was an idiot — that the Russians were practically dead already. When I told Hitler about Russian armament potentials, especially for tank materials, Hitler flew into a rage of fury and threatened me with his fists.

“Hitler issued several orders to the eastern front, contrary to military advice. This caused the setback. Then he blamed the army group for the defeat and claimed that they were purposely at fault. At that point I became furious, struck my fists on the table, made scenes, et cetera. When we finally parted, Hitler mentioned those scenes, and said that my nerves were bad and that his nerves were bad and that they would get worse if we worked together any longer. But between us, Doctor, those arguments were provoked by me because in twenty years of general staff work I have served with many superior officers and have not had arguments and I have always gotten along.”

Rudolf Hoess
1900–1947

Rudolf Hoess, SS lieutenant colonel from 1942, commandant of the concentration camp in Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943, was arrested by the British in 1946 and passed on to Poland. Tried by a Polish military tribunal, he was hanged at Auschwitz on April 7, 1947.

A forty-six-year-old man, Rudolf Hoess, in the C wing in isolation. He sat with both feet in a tub of cold water, his hands clasped in his lap, rubbing them together. He said he had had frostbite for two weeks and that soaking his feet in the cold water relieved the aching.

I remarked that it hadn’t been cold here, how did they get frostbite? “I was in Schleswig-Holstein, barefooted in a cell. When the British captured me I was naked and they just threw a couple of blankets around me and took me to prison. They didn’t give me any shoes or socks.” I asked when he was arrested. “On March 11, 1946.” Tell me about it, I said. “I was hiding after I had been discharged under a false name as a navy sailor. I worked on a farm in Schleswig-Holstein.”
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I asked how the authorities found out who he was. He said, “As far as I know, they questioned my family, who live in Schleswig, and my oldest son, age sixteen, must have given them my address.” Why didn’t you give yourself up before? I queried. “I thought I could get away with it.” What was your official position? I asked. “As of November 1943 I was head of a branch of the Economics and Administrative Main Office in Berlin. Our office was actually in Oranienburg. This office was formerly called
the Inspection Division for concentration camps. We had charge of the inspection of all concentration camps, including Silesia. The only camps which were not under our supervision were those in Russia and in the Ukraine, which were under the higher SS police. The General Government of Poland was under my supervision, but concentration camps farther on in Russia itself came under the aegis of SS generals.